Author Topic: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments  (Read 113410 times)

Offline Mikaela

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #220 on: August 24, 2006, 06:49:13 pm »
It's weird...... I don't think the "I love you" is really there. I personally believe it's just Ennis exhaling strongly, audibly, unevenly.  Nevertheless, now that I know exactly where it is, now that I know how many here do hear him clearly saying"I love you"  - I'm hearing it too. At least I'll agree it's a possibility he may actually and intentionally be whispering it -  keeping it so low-key as to be almost indiscernible, but still *there*.

By now I don't think it will ever be possible for me to watch that moment in the film again without automatically hearing - and thinking - "I love you". Which adds volumes to the depth and emotion and sheer force of the scene. So a warm thank you to everyone who hears it without any shadow of a doubt!  :)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #221 on: August 25, 2006, 01:23:11 am »
By now I don't think it will ever be possible for me to watch that moment in the film again without automatically hearing - and thinking - "I love you". Which adds volumes to the depth and emotion and sheer force of the scene. So a warm thank you to everyone who hears it without any shadow of a doubt!  :)

I myself do have a shadow of a doubt. But only a shadow -- I'm maybe 85 percent sure. Part of it is that the movie is so full of these nearly indiscernible moments, others of which have been verified 100 percent, that it isn't implausible (it just seems like yet another trick of Ang's to drive us crazy); part is that those three exhales or twitches or whatever they are so neatly fit that intepretation; part is the way the scene cuts away to Mrs. Twist immediately afterward; part is that it's what I'd probably say under the circumstances -- what I probably wouldn't be able to keep myself from saying -- if I were Ennis. And part, to be honest, is my really wanting it to be there because, as you say, it "adds volumes to the depth and emotion and sheer force of the scene." The scene is pretty much perfect without it, but with it, it's more than perfect. So, as always when something is sufficiently ambiguous, I simply choose the interpretation that makes me happiest (or least sad).

I know some would call that wishful thinking, but that's not entirely accurate either. I do think there's a strong objective basis for it, too.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #222 on: August 25, 2006, 04:06:39 pm »
I was once one of those in opposotion to "I love you". I was sure it is not there and it is only wishful thinking of those who believed it's there.
After Katherine described very detailed, when and where to look for it, I watched the scene with volume cranked up. Watched it repeatedly and watched it on slow-motion.

I'm still not sure about it. But I altered my opinion from a definite 'No' to a 'could be'. I definately hear something. And it could be I love you.
Darn. I've lent my DVD to my friend, so I can't check it again right now. When I have my DVD back, I'll make my husband listening carefully to this scene. He's a neutral observer. I won't tell him what he is supposed to hear or not hear at first. I'll just ask him whether he hears anything that could be more than exhaling at all.
I'll report back (if he won't call the men with the straightjacket :laugh:).

Offline dly64

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #223 on: August 25, 2006, 04:52:39 pm »
Darn. I've lent my DVD to my friend, so I can't check it again right now. When I have my DVD back, I'll make my husband listening carefully to this scene. He's a neutral observer. I won't tell him what he is supposed to hear or not hear at first. I'll just ask him whether he hears anything that could be more than exhaling at all.
I'll report back (if he won't call the men with the straightjacket :laugh:).

YIKES!! No way could I lend out my copy of BBM! I even have two DVD's ... but one is for home and the other is for when I travel.  :-\ CRAZY, I know!
Diane

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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #224 on: August 25, 2006, 05:04:14 pm »
YIKES!! No way could I lend out my copy of BBM! I even have two DVD's ... but one is for home and the other is for when I travel.  :-\ CRAZY, I know!

I have two, too  :laugh:
But one is dubbed in German, so it's not fit to prove anything.
I never thought I would ever lend my original (English) DVD to anyone. But my only fellow-Brokie in real-life asked me for it. And she can't even speak English! Talking about crazy. She can't understand what is said, but wanted to see the movie in it's original language, with the original voices of the actors, nonetheless.

I don't know if I had lend it to any other person but her. And fortunaltely I have no reason to do so, because I don't know any person who likes to see movies in English. Though I have no problems to lend out the German version, because it's the English one which is closer to my heart.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 05:14:49 pm by Penthesilea »

Offline dly64

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #225 on: August 25, 2006, 07:41:57 pm »
I have two, too  :laugh:
But one is dubbed in German, so it's not fit to prove anything.
I never thought I would ever lend my original (English) DVD to anyone. But my only fellow-Brokie in real-life asked me for it. And she can't even speak English! Talking about crazy. She can't understand what is said, but wanted to see the movie in it's original language, with the original voices of the actors, nonetheless.

I don't know if I had lend it to any other person but her. And fortunaltely I have no reason to do so, because I don't know any person who likes to see movies in English. Though I have no problems to lend out the German version, because it's the English one which is closer to my heart.

It's still a great sacrifice! It does make a difference to hear it in a non-dubbed version. You are obviously a good friend Ö especially since your friend canít even understand English!   ;)
Diane

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Offline 2robots4u

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #226 on: August 27, 2006, 07:05:57 pm »
Hi all...as I said a number of posts above, I asked a detective friend in a major police department to review certain scenes for me.  I received the results a week ago, but due to time, was just able to get the response ready for posting.

His name is John and he told his partners what he was doing and 2 of them wanted to help out, so this turned out far better than I expected.  None of the 3 had seen the movie, so I asked that they not view the entire movie first, but to review only specific scenes, then view it in one sweep.

For ease of identification I will use the first initial of all people involved, including characters:

Both male detectives are John; my friend is gay so he is GJ, the other is straight-SJ, and Magaret is M.  Jack-J, Ennis-E, Alma-A, Alma Jr.-Jr., Randall-R, Lureen-Lu, Lashawn-La.

Each of the 3 purchased a DVD individually soas not to get 2 from the same place, ending up with 2 full screen, and 1 wide screen.  Typical police investigative techniques were employeed.

TS1:  a.  some viewers reported J and E were holding hands.  No, not in the
             traditional sense.  During the sex act, E places his right hand on top
             of the back of J right hand, where it remains until the act ends.
        b.  Many viewers claim to see J place E hand on his (J) crotch.  After both
             E and J have sat up, and before J starts to remove his jacket, they
             move their hands around a lot trying to establish a hold on each other.
             In this struggle, E places his left hand on J left forearm; J begins to move
             his arm down and we see some shoulder movement by J.  The rest is
             out of the viewer's range, below the bottom edge of the film.  But by
             the process of extrapolation, and the "moment of  content" view on
             E face, all 3 analysts agree that it is 99% possible that it did occur.
         c.  When the "Fuck me" line was first mentioned, a few viewers stated
              they heard it, but as it got more momentum, more and more claim to
              have heard it.  After removing all sound from the film, except voice
              prints, all 3 analysists agree that it is non-existent.

TS2:  The big question is who speaks, and what is said?  There is only 1 voice
         print in this scene, and he says "I'M sorry" followed by "It's all right, it's
         all right.  Lie back, Come on".  That voice belongs to J.

Reunion Kiss:  This scene was analyzed from the moment E begins to descend
                    the stairs, until he starts back up to introduce J.  Again, all
                    sound, except voice prints, are removed, and both voices are
                    heard, but only 1 statement each:  J says "Son of a bitch" as     
                    they embrace.  E looks around for "spys", grabs J by the shirt,
                    begins to push him to the stairwell, and says "Come here".
                    Nothing else is there, specifically "later" by E as they separate,
                    as was suggeted and affirmed to by several viewers.

Closet scene:  This is perhaps the most controvertial scene in the movie, as to
                     what was said/not said.  The scene was alalyzed from the time
                     E starts up the stairs, to the time he reappears in the kitchen.
                     All sound, except voice prints, were removed and there is nothing
                     there, as agreed to by all 3 analysts.

A personal comment here on this scene: 1. I can't begin to imagine E saying such a thing when he has never said endearing comments to J before, not commented back to J upon hearing J says something endearing to him.  It just simply is not in E character to do something like that. 2.  With as much detail to subtitling (crow cawing, crickets chirrping, clink of buckle, among others), how could they have missed "I love you" if it was said?  How did they overlook perhaps the most significant line in the movie? This is my sole basis for not believing E said anything in this scene in the first place.   

Benefit Dance Scene:  This scene was the more difficult to analyze because so
                    much is going on at one time.  M and GJ both agreed that to
                    understand who says what to whom, you have to pay close
                    attention to vocal tones (is it sultry, just plain talk, downright
                    nasty, sarcasism, or in a jocking manner), voice inflextions (the rise and fall
                    of syllables and  key expressions), and eye movement. J eyes dart
                    around a lot from Lu to La to R, and to off in the distance, but at
                    the moment when he says "You want to dance?" he is looking
                    directly at La.  SJ agrees to this, but adds that R responds as if
                    HE were asked.  M and GJ respond that R is suprised that J asks
                    La to dance, the reason for the look on his face, and then the
                    look he give La when she accepts.  After a few more runs through
                    the machine, SJ finally agrees that J most definitely asks La to
                    dance, but is still questioning the reaction of R.

So there you have it.  Please remember the expression "Don't kill the messenger."

Doug


   
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 07:07:55 pm by [email protected] »

Offline 2robots4u

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #227 on: August 27, 2006, 07:15:04 pm »
I forgot to mention in the above that SJ and M found the full screen version better because of the "closer to the character" feel, while GJ found wide screen better because it shows everything going on in the scene.  To that, I have to add that I am in favor of both versions for different reasons, but in the wide screen version, why do I care what the horses are doing in the scene with J and E sitting at the fire?  The attention should be on them, and no the creatures of the night. I feel the full screen give me the sense of being in, but not intruding upon the scene (such as the motel scene), whereas, the wide screen makes me a distant spectator, but provides beautiful scenery.  Tough choice, isn't it
Doug
 

Offline dly64

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #228 on: August 27, 2006, 07:57:05 pm »
I forgot to mention in the above that SJ and M found the full screen version better because of the "closer to the character" feel, while GJ found wide screen better because it shows everything going on in the scene.  To that, I have to add that I am in favor of both versions for different reasons, but in the wide screen version, why do I care what the horses are doing in the scene with J and E sitting at the fire?  The attention should be on them, and no the creatures of the night. I feel the full screen give me the sense of being in, but not intruding upon the scene (such as the motel scene), whereas, the wide screen makes me a distant spectator, but provides beautiful scenery.  Tough choice, isn't it
Doug
 

OMG, Doug! You have debunked almost everything I believed (with the exception of the hand being placed on Jack's groin and Ennis' saying "come here").  >:( (Okay, okay ... I know you are the messenger, so I won't kill you!)

BTW, I am a staunch believer in widescreen versions because they show the intent of the director. However, I am fortunate to have a magnifier on my DVD player. So, if there is something I want to see up close and personal, I click it and it turns it into full-screen. I can continue to be a film snob in name and then secretly enjoy portions in the full-screen format.  ::)
Diane

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Offline 2robots4u

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Re: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
« Reply #229 on: August 27, 2006, 08:10:14 pm »
Diane..thanks for sparing me ;D
 You can be as big a film snob as you want. If I had the wide screen version (a store mix-up gave me the full screen version and I didn't want to go through the hassle of returning it) I would probably have different comments on which is best.  But as I said, I like both versions for different reasons. 8)