TOTW 05/09: Things that made you go "hunh?"

[mariez]

I have a small "hunh":  I wonder why the screenwriters (or perhaps the director) felt it necessary to change Francine's name to Jennifer (Jenny).  I originally thought it was because "Francine" was too French-sounding or perhaps because it seemed "too modern" -- in which case it could have just been changed to "Frances" -- but, according to Wikipedia, Francine was a very popular name in the U.S. in the 1940s and 1950s: 

Francine is a female given name. The name is of French origin, derived from French name Francoise, itself the female version of Francois, the French form of Francis. The name Francine was most popular in France itself during the 1940s (Besnard & Desplanques 2003), and was well used in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s (Evans 2006). Short forms are Frannie, Frans and Fran.

It seems to me, based on the above, that Wyomingites Alma and Ennis could have very well chosen Francine as the name for their younger daughter without it raising any eyebrows. 

Does anyone care to speculate on why Francine might have been changed to Jennifer? 

For starters, maybe it's as simple as McMurtry, Ossana, or Ang Lee just don't like that name. 

Hi Fran!  I remember reading about this and after searching around a bit, I found out where I'd heard it discussed in the Chez Tremblay forum.  Diana Ossana gave an interview at the Samuel Goldwyn Theater in Beverly Hills on August 4 of last year.   

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22245.0.html

Bettermostian tamarack was kind enough to transcribe the interview (links provided in his initial post).  The part about Francine/Jenny is in part 2 of the transcript:

Audience: I just have a small trivia question. There’s a difference between Annie’s novel and your story that centers around the name of the younger daughter, which you changed from Francine to Jenny. I’d like to hear the story behind that.

Oh, it’s a simple story. They have to check on names, and if it belongs to a real person you have to get them cleared, so that’s why the names are changed. That’s the only reason, because we didn’t get clearance from the real people.


When I read her reply, I have to admit that that was one reason I'd never considered! 

[serious crayons]

That's weird. So somewhere out there, there's a Francine Del Mar, and she wouldn't give the OK? But apparently the Jenny Del Mars of the world were fine with it? And Francine would have been a legal risk, even if she wasn't a 20-something woman from Wyoming? Or maybe she was.

Wouldn't they have to make a lot of calls in movies where the characters had fairly common names? If that's the case, I'm amazed movie characters don't all have names like, I don't know, Nightshade Von Tibbleskins or something.

But wait -- Renee Zelwegger's character in Jerry Maguire is name Dorothy Boyd, which is my grandmother's name. And I don't remember HER getting a call! I don't think anyone would have confused the two, though. 

These little moviemaking rules can be strange. A friend owns the prop master's copy of the BBM script. One thing it notes is that the beer and whiskey bottles that Jack and Ennis drink from that first summer all had to have their labels turned from the camera. That's because Jack and Ennis were underage to drink. In their later years, showing the labels was OK.

 

[Fran]

Hi Fran!  I remember reading about this and after searching around a bit, I found out where I'd heard it discussed in the Chez Tremblay forum.  Diana Ossana gave an interview at the Samuel Goldwyn Theater in Beverly Hills on August 4 of last year.   

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,22245.0.html

Bettermostian tamarack was kind enough to transcribe the interview (links provided in his initial post).  The part about Francine/Jenny is in part 2 of the transcript:

Audience: I just have a small trivia question. There’s a difference between Annie’s novel and your story that centers around the name of the younger daughter, which you changed from Francine to Jenny. I’d like to hear the story behind that.

Oh, it’s a simple story. They have to check on names, and if it belongs to a real person you have to get them cleared, so that’s why the names are changed. That’s the only reason, because we didn’t get clearance from the real people.


When I read her reply, I have to admit that that was one reason I'd never considered! 

Thanks, Marie.

Do you think the clearances would be from every "Francine del Mar" living in Riverton, or do you think the geographic area would be larger, like every "Francine del Mar" in the state of Wyoming?  Surely, not every "Francine del Mar" living in the U.S..... Imagine the work involved if a character had a common name like Mary Smith.

Edited to add:

I think if this legal stuff was up to me, I would only require clearances from a Francine del Mar if her mother was named Alma and her father was named Ennis. 

In any event, now I know what "Clearances by" and "Additional Clearances by" in the end credits refer to.

[tamarack]

One thing that I noticed from the beginning is that when we first see Ennis cooking over the campfire he is handling the pan with a bare hand. Ouch!

By the time he was cooking up that elk, he was wearing a glove. (And I always loved that he shook salt into his hand to see how much was coming out. How many times have I done that! That was just so real.)

I always thought that Jack's "shoot before you aim" process says a lot about his personality. And he must have found that eagle feather on the ground!

[mariez]

That's weird. So somewhere out there, there's a Francine Del Mar, and she wouldn't give the OK? But apparently the Jenny Del Mars of the world were fine with it? And Francine would have been a legal risk, even if she wasn't a 20-something woman from Wyoming? Or maybe she was.

Wouldn't they have to make a lot of calls in movies where the characters had fairly common names? If that's the case, I'm amazed movie characters don't all have names like, I don't know, Nightshade Von Tibbleskins or something.

I know - it does seem weird.  If Diana Ossana herself hadn't said it, I'm not sure I'd believe it.  Nightshade Von Tibbleskins      And funny about your grandmother, too! 

These little moviemaking rules can be strange. A friend owns the prop master's copy of the BBM script. One thing it notes is that the beer and whiskey bottles that Jack and Ennis drink from that first summer all had to have their labels turned from the camera. That's because Jack and Ennis were underage to drink. In their later years, showing the labels was OK.

Oh, that's an interesting bit of trivia! 

Thanks, Marie.

Do you think the clearances would be from every "Francine del Mar" living in Riverton, or do you think the geographic area would be larger, like every "Francine del Mar" in the state of Wyoming?  Surely, not every "Francine del Mar" living in the U.S..... Imagine the work involved if a character had a common name like Mary Smith.

Yeah, you'd think it would have to apply only to a relatively small geographical area otherwise it does seem impossible to control.  That would be interesting to look into. 

I think if this legal stuff was up to me, I would only require clearances from a Francine del Mar if her mother was named Alma and her father was named Ennis. 

   Yep.  That would narrow it down a bit, wouldn't it? 

In any event, now I know what "Clearances by" and "Additional Clearances by" in the end credits refer to.

I've never really paid attention to that before in the credits - but I sure will now!

[LauraGigs]

I had an uncle that was a steelworker making about 25K that divorced in '74. His obligation was $110.00 per child per month so $125.00 seems pretty steep to me for what Ennis prolly made.

What part of the country was this in, Talon?

I imagine Ennis's payments might have been reduced when Alma married Monroe, although I'm not very familiar with that area of the law.

Would Ennis and Alma's divorce have been "no-fault"?  Or would Alma have to have grounds, such as cruelty, infidelity or irreconcilable differences?  Although if she had claimed infidelity at that point, the Thanksgiving revelations would not have happened the way they did.

[LauraGigs]

One thing that I noticed from the beginning is that when we first see Ennis cooking over the campfire he is handling the pan with a bare hand. Ouch!
By the time he was cooking up that elk, he was wearing a glove. (And I always loved that he shook salt into his hand to see how much was coming out. How many times have I done that! That was just so real.)

Great observations, Tamarack.

I always thought that Jack's "shoot before you aim" process says a lot about his personality. And he must have found that eagle feather on the ground!

 

[tampatalon]

What part of the country was this in, Talon?

I imagine Ennis's payments might have been reduced when Alma married Monroe, although I'm not very familiar with that area of the law.

Would Ennis and Alma's divorce have been "no-fault"?  Or would Alma have to have grounds, such as cruelty, infidelity or irreconcilable differences?  Although if she had claimed infidelity at that point, the Thanksgiving revelations would not have happened the way they did.

My reference for my uncle was western Pennsylvania back when steel was king.


TampaTalon^">

[Monika]

Speaking of mics, how about the infamous visible microphone cord on Alma, Jr., when Alma picks her up as Ennis is running off ot the mountains with Jack for the first time? 

I have never seen it...and how many times have I watched the movie by now?



great thread btw

[Monika]

I'd say that numerous mysterious aspects of the timeline provide the biggest "hunh" moments for me.

For example, the amount of time that Ennis dates Cassie and that Jack presumably sees Randall works out to be about 4 or 5 years if you look at various clues in the movie (such as the banner in the Childress dinner-dance scene). Therefore, these sideline relationships are fairly significant... if only for their duration.  The fact that Ennis seems to only be mentioning Cassie for the first time during the final camping trip, when Jack asks him if he'd ever get married again... always seems a bit odd to me.



Yep, sure enough... great TOTW!

  The timeline also made my go HUNH. Not the first times I saw the movie though, because I never noticed the clues ( such as the banner) and just assumed that Ennis´s and Cassie´s relationship didn´t go on for very long. It wasn´t until after I had read the shortstory, and someone pointed it out to me in a discussion.

I agree that in the movie, Cassie´s and Ennis´s relationship don´t feel "old".


The only other thing that ever made me go HUNH was the first time I saw FNIT. First they were just sleeping and then suddenly...holy...