Why are the poor, poor?

[brokeplex]

Well, yeah. But the balance of risk vs. reward has to be reasonable. Risking jumping off a cliff on the chance you might learn how to fly is not reasonable. I'm not saying your plan is that outrageous, just that it would require a lot more knowledge of the current job market and the projected job market than I myself have. A lot of technical jobs eventually won't exist, or won't exist in this country, or won't be performed by a human. Will the number of remaining jobs be sufficient? What happens to people who have received narrow training for a now obsolete job? The broader the education, the easier the career shift.


I don't know enough about why people drop out of high school. Is it because they don't feel the academics are useful, or is it for other reasons -- lifestyle, pregnancy, delinquency, parents' examples ... ? Personally, as I said, I don't know. If the majority drop out because they don't find the coursework relevant, you could be right.
 

Aren't these pretty common already? I know they had them in my high school. It was called Vo-Tech (vocational/technical). There was also a program called "Mini School" for would-be dropouts, and SWAS, School Within a School, where higher achievers worked on independent study projects.

Vocational partnerships with existing employers who have evidenced both a desire to offer input into the curriculum and job opportunities that need filling, would preclude proffering a vocational education in disappearing markets. The employers who would set up internship programs would not do so if they did not see the need for the student to fill a real job in the real world after graduation. The marketplace is a much better indicator of those needs than the educational bureaucracy.

Vocational training most definitely not so narrow that it would only apply to one specific job with one specific employer or group of similar employers. Apprenticeships / Internships out of vocational schools are based upon a broader education than just the minutiae of a single employers needs. It is based upon the needs of entire industries and related industries.

Two Examples:

1) a vocational student enters the workshop internship programs specializing in a "machinist" position in a GM plant that makes SUV's. Because of the high price of gas, the SUV market collapses and there are layoffs at the GM plant. That student however would be prepared to offer their skills at any number of business operations both large and small who wish to hire machinists. In this case, because of the change in market conditions, the guaranteed job evaporates but because of a highly marketable skill, can easily be replaced.

2)  a Student graduates from traditional curriculum in a high school, no voc ed, no internships, just a diploma, which will get him or her into a community college, a McDonald's job and that is about all. So, what are this student's prospects compared to the vocational tech student? Not even a close comparison, one studied relevant material and had hands on experience with something that will get him or her a good job, the other is just more fodder ejected from the public schools, clueless about the future and with small prospects of success.

I love the idea of independent study projects, and not just for high academic achievers, we need such projects for those who can achieve in non academically oriented subjects. Why not train mechanics this way, or machinists, or those interested in agriculture or mining?

[serious crayons]

2)  a Student graduates from traditional curriculum in a high school, no voc ed, no internships, just a diploma, which will get him or her into a community college, a McDonald's job and that is about all.

... Or into a post-secondary vocational school. Here's just one of the online websites that lists them in every state in what appear to be dozens or hundreds of categories:

http://www.rwm.org/rwm/

Here, for example, is a list for Texas. On the site, clicking on any of those fields takes you to a list of schools that provide training in that area.

   1.  Aircraft: A&P Technician, Ground and Flight, Pilot
   2. Arts & Design: Applied and Creative, Design, Media, Fashion
   3. Automotive:  Automotive Technician, Driver, Heavy Equipment Operator, Repair, Trucking
   4. Barbering & Cosmetology: Esthetician, Cosmetologist, Hair Design, Facial, Make-Up, Manicuring, Nails, Salon Management
   5. Bartending
   6. Business: Accounting,  Administrative, General Office, Management, Marketing, Organizational Psychology, Secretarial
   7. Computers & Information Technology: CAD, Installer, Multimedia, Programmer, Repairer, Web Designer
   8. Construction: Estimator, Heavy Equipment Operator, Project Manager, Superintendent
   9. Culinary
  10. Electronics & HVAC : Assembler, Electrical and Electronics Equipment Installer, Equipment Repairer, HVAC
  11. Fashion Design: Apparel, Illustration, Merchandising
  12. Gaming: Casino Dealer, Machine Repair, Table Games
  13. Healthcare & Medical: Dental, Massage Therapy, Medical Assistant, Medical Office, Medical Records Technician, Nursing, Optician, Paramedic, Pharmacy Technician, X-Ray Technician
  14. Inspection & Environmental: Hazardous Waste Technician, Home Inspection, Inspector, Quality Assurance
  15. Jewelry: Bench, Designer, Identification, Diamond Setter
  16. Legal: Court Reporter, Criminal Justice, Legal Office, Paralegal
  17. Machinist: Machine Operator, CNC Machinist, CNC Operator
  18. Plumber: Pipefitter
  19. Private Investigation: Investigation, Security, Protection
  20. Telecommunications: Assembler, Cable Installer, Fiber Optic Technician, Networking, Repairer, Systems Installer
  21. Travel: Flight Attendant, Hotel Management, Reservationist, Travel Agent
  22. Welding

I love the idea of independent study projects, and not just for high academic achievers, we need such projects for those who can achieve in non academically oriented subjects. Why not train mechanics this way, or machinists, or those interested in agriculture or mining?

Well, again, many do.

[Clyde-B]

    What about people with limited talents and abilities?  Are we just supposed to be Darwinian about them?

    And the elderly, if they've worked all their lives in jobs that don't pay enough to save anything decent for retirement?

    Are we only going to provide opportunities and advantages and safety nets for the able? 

[HerrKaiser]

    What about people with limited talents and abilities?  Are we just supposed to be Darwinian about them?

Everyone has ability to do "something" unless they are completely mentally or physically handicapped. The darwinian part is how the folks with any capabilites choose to use them.

    And the elderly, if they've worked all their lives in jobs that don't pay enough to save anything decent for retirement?

That is what SS is for and medicare. Not much, but millions are living on those payments. It will get worse, though, because of the sheer numbers of baby boomers reaching retirment ages...and i don't get the impression that the current pop culture has much compassion for anything other than the next court date for Britney Spears! 

    Are we only going to provide opportunities and advantages and safety nets for the able? 

Safety nets are supposed to be for everyone. As I have mentioned before, the safety nets have turned into hammocks for many. As a result, the revenues available are no longer sufficient to act as safety nets for the "able" when they get into trouble/need. Try getting public help if you are not a government-labeled minority or with any assets. It will not happen.

[Jeff Wrangler]

for people that answer the phone?? You're kidding...

Nope. Not kiddin'. There is an organization that certifies medical assistants. They require that an extensive and wide-ranging exam be passed for certification.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I am talking about people coming on and criticizing ME on a thread I started saying I am not posting in a manner they approve of.

That seems kinda rude, if you ask me. 

[Luvlylittlewing]

especially if past interaction has shown that they do not like my posting style...why even come on at all?? 

I assume just to be cruel. It DID hurt....but I am trying to look past it.

I just got the bill in for my last hospital stay...(well the latest copy I should say) since I don't have insurance the total is all on us...$15,000 give or take a ten...

You know that some places charge you more if you don't have insurance?

I am sorry for it, Injest.  I'm sending a lot of positive energy your way.

[serious crayons]

I just got the bill in for my last hospital stay...(well the latest copy I should say) since I don't have insurance the total is all on us...$15,000 give or take a ten...

You know that some places charge you more if you don't have insurance?

One minute things can be good. You can have everything...and in a second you could lose it all.
One car accident, one natural disaster...and all you have worked for could be gone. '

Oh my gosh, Jess, this seems like a really risky situation. Obviously I know nothing about either your health or your finances, but is there any way around this, even if it's costly? I'm sure you already know this, but one catastrophic illness or accident ...

[Jeff Wrangler]

And the lack of compassion on the part of some people who call themselves Christian just makes me want to hit them. ... 

I know it sounds like a cliche and cheap sentimentality, but time and again I ask myself, What would Jesus think of these people? Do they even listen to themselves? What gospel are they hearing on Sundays?

No wonder professed Christians have gotten a bad name in this country. 

How can--how dare--some people call themselves Christian and yet be so indifferent to the lack of health care among the poor in this country? And yet they want to claim that the U.S. is a "Christian nation." ...

Sorry, that was a bit O.T., I guess. ... 

[Artiste]

Thanks broketrash !

You say:
  All people do not have the inclination or training to become a surgeon. 
........

Broketrash, may I agree with you.

However, those that do want to become a surgeon and can be trained for that, should be able to do so, but that is often not the case !! I noted that the creation of another medical school could have been done sooner, but  the government and the elite controlling the quota did not, and, therefore, many persons had no medical doctor and therefore, died before their time; same is happening now in many countries! Why ?
WE steal medical doctos from OTHERS countries, what a shame, since they are need in their own countries! Why do we resist that our own children become medical doctors ??

To me that is one case which renders persons poor ! When one becomes sick and no doctor can be found, then you become poor, because it costs more for that human being and for society too, which we do not think about that... as well as for cos which need help for labour and thought in production design and lines ! Entrepreneurs and cos need workers who are well, not sick persons - no too poor to come to work !!

There is too much of a lack of varied job creations, which makes  many areas more and more poor !! For instance, many states in the USA (as well as provinces in Canada) gives billions of $ to Toyota to build cars, which co. does not need that dough! To me, that is a shame. It seems to me, that those public $ should be spent on creating different products, especially inventing new technologies which would be very much varied and not just car parts !! Many different kinds of entrepreneurs need cash to hire persons in order to create different prototypes, in many fields and not just to make cars!! There is a lack of perspective !! Governments give dough to cos that don't need it!!



 There are many others such schools which are needed... besides a medical one likely in your area so local school kids would have the chance to be a doctor and be encouraged for that, or to become a plumber, a technician, a painter, a plasterer, an inventor, a TV repair person, etc. ! ! Yes! And also many other different kinds of schools are needed too: like for technologies and vocations, but these are too rare, even if the kids need training !! So, the kids sell dope, as if that is the ONLY way out ?? Society need all sorts of trades, not just a Toyota foreign owned co. !

Shame!

So, now it's Toyota, and  Made in China time and no jobs in the USA, Canada, etc., times !! WE all will sell dope and become more poor in order to enrich dope warlords ??

Au revoir,
hugs!!