Author Topic: lovable subtle details  (Read 277212 times)

Offline David

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #90 on: May 04, 2006, 08:59:59 am »
Exactly!    Those shirts have been up there for 20 years.   With Jack going up to see his folks a few times a year after visiting Ennis, you can be sure at some point he told his Momma about the shirts and that he didn't want them found by his father. 

Or perhaps like any good mother, she was up in his room cleaning, maybe even took down some of the clothes in the closet to wash and found the shirts by mistake.   

Either way, by the ffact she encouraged him to go up to the room and her smile when he came down with the shirts tells me she knew they were there and special to Jack.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2006, 12:38:39 pm »
Also, it's a testament to her sensitivity that she knew right away not to wash the shirts or put them on two separate hangers (as some good moms might do), that she somehow grasped the significance of the symbolism, and put two and two together when Ennis showed up.

Course, she'd had a few other clues over the years, such as Jack's talk of bringing Ennis Del Mar up to the ranch. And maybe she recognized that one of the shirts wasn't Jack's.

But still. Not all mothers would think through everything that carefully. So I do think she meant him to find them.

TJ

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2006, 05:03:16 pm »
Many of the "lovable subtle details" of the finished movie product are not even found in Annie Proulx's original story.

Some of the movie's subtle details contradict Annie Proulx's own subtle literary details, too.

If I had never read the Brokeback Mountain short story before I saw the movie, I would have a different attitude toward what I saw on the big screen and I see on the DVD at home.

I don't dislike the movie's subtle details as such; I just feel that sometimes it is like seeing a right-wing "Christian" fundamentalists ideas about what they think is in the Bible on a movie/TV screen.

Since I did grow up mostly in the country and have lived in and been in houses just like Annie Proulx described the house on the John C. Twist, Sr. ranch, and there were even MAKE-SHIFT closets like the one in the book, and I knew people who were like the Twist folks, I just see things differently than many of the city folks in this BetterMost forum.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2006, 05:16:38 pm »
Also, it's a testament to her sensitivity that she knew right away not to wash the shirts or put them on two separate hangers (as some good moms might do), that she somehow grasped the significance of the symbolism, and put two and two together when Ennis showed up.

Course, she'd had a few other clues over the years, such as Jack's talk of bringing Ennis Del Mar up to the ranch. And maybe she recognized that one of the shirts wasn't Jack's.

But still. Not all mothers would think through everything that carefully. So I do think she meant him to find them.

Even if he never told her about them, she would know that Jack would never wear a shirt like Ennis'.  His shirts were always solid.  When you watch the other stuff hanging there, there are a couple of coats and solid shirts.  A loving mama would recognize immediately that it wasn't his shirt but another man's, and she'd have already known Jack was gay by her very lovingness and acceptance of him.  Add to that, as you say, his talk of Ennis Del Mar, and she'd have it all put together.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2006, 07:14:17 pm »
OK, here's an LSD (loveable subtle detail) that I don't recall seeing elsewhere, or at least not recently:

The little frown of concentration on Ennis' face in the motel scene that shows how closely he is listening when Jack is talking. (Compare that to Alma talking, when often he only half-listens.)

Then he asks Jack, "The army didn't get ya?" using the exact words that Jack had used when they left Signal. Suggesting that Ennis has gone over and over that sad conversation in his mind -- and perhaps worrying about the prospect of Jack's getting drafted -- for four years.



Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #95 on: May 04, 2006, 09:00:21 pm »
Then he asks Jack, "The army didn't get ya?" using the exact words that Jack had used when they left Signal. Suggesting that Ennis has gone over and over that sad conversation in his mind -- and perhaps worrying about the prospect of Jack's getting drafted -- for four years.

Good one, Friend!  I also, like that he clearly has been worrying about that punch for 4 years too...  also probably turning that "confusing tussle" over and over in his mind.  It's probably a relief for him to resolve that issue and get some closure on how they left things at the end of the Brokeback summer.  It's cute to realize that by the time of the reunion Jack doesn't seem too bothered about the punch anymore.  He seems to be a pro at letting hurtful things roll off of him.

OK, new totally unrelated details-
I love every shot when we see either Jack or Ennis carrying a lamb around with them up on their horse.  Absolutely adorable.  I also love the scene where Jack is picking something out of the hoof of a lamb that's lounging on his lap.  I love how relaxed that sheep looks.  I also love that Ennis is just sitting their smoking. 

This just feeds into my whole thing about Jack being equated with the lambs and the idea that Ennis feels such a deep sense of duty to protect them and look after them.  Awww....
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

moremojo

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #96 on: May 05, 2006, 10:58:31 pm »
  I also love the scene where Jack is picking something out of the hoof of a lamb that's lounging on his lap.  I love how relaxed that sheep looks.  I also love that Ennis is just sitting their smoking. 

This just feeds into my whole thing about Jack being equated with the lambs and the idea that Ennis feels such a deep sense of duty to protect them and look after them.  Awww....
I like this little moment too, Amanda, and like how you articulate how Ennis may already be growing more protective of Jack, even at this early stage. I like the confidence that Jack exudes here in performing his task, and the respect and casual interest with which Ennis regards the scene.

Here's another little thought that I just had yesterday, for the first time. This can only remain speculation, of course, but I wondered if Ennis's initial complaint about the harmonica (more specifically, Jack playing the harmonica) might have hidden his longing to have Jack engage him in conversation. He's trying to engage Jack's attention when commenting on the tent, and Jack does interrupt his playing to respond to Ennis. Just a thought.

Scott

Offline starboardlight

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #97 on: May 05, 2006, 11:53:10 pm »
Here's another little thought that I just had yesterday, for the first time. This can only remain speculation, of course, but I wondered if Ennis's initial complaint about the harmonica (more specifically, Jack playing the harmonica) might have hidden his longing to have Jack engage him in conversation. He's trying to engage Jack's attention when commenting on the tent, and Jack does interrupt his playing to respond to Ennis. Just a thought.

interestingly enough, there's a reversal in dynamic between the boys in that scene. It's Ennis complaining and wanting to fix the tent, but Jack is the one that says we'll just stand it.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #98 on: May 06, 2006, 12:00:32 am »
good point starboardlight.  moremojo, I do like the idea that Ennis might be sort of *jealous* of that harmonica because it's causing Jack to be distracted and not talk to him.  cute.

About the lambs and Ennis's sense of being protective... I think this is one detail in Proulx's story that seems important (and it comes through in the film in varying ways) that Ennis seems to have felt very guilty that he wasn't there to help/ protect Jack at the time of his death.  Clearly Ennis is convinced that Jack was murdered... so on one hand Ennis feels guilty that he wasn't there to protect Jack from becoming a victim of "predator loss" ... and on the other hand if Jack died due to the accident (drowning in his own blood) Ennis is mad and feels guilty that no one (not even Ennis himself) was there to roll Jack over to save him.  This is quite explicit in the phone call episode with Lureen in Proulx's story.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #99 on: May 08, 2006, 01:35:06 am »
About the lambs and Ennis's sense of being protective... I think this is one detail in Proulx's story that seems important (and it comes through in the film in varying ways) that Ennis seems to have felt very guilty that he wasn't there to help/ protect Jack at the time of his death.  Clearly Ennis is convinced that Jack was murdered... so on one hand Ennis feels guilty that he wasn't there to protect Jack from becoming a victim of "predator loss" ... and on the other hand if Jack died due to the accident (drowning in his own blood) Ennis is mad and feels guilty that no one (not even Ennis himself) was there to roll Jack over to save him.  This is quite explicit in the phone call episode with Lureen in Proulx's story.

Too sad, Amanda. You're right, though. Ennis' protectiveness of Jack gets underestimated because in most cases it's Jack nurturing Ennis when Ennis goes through some emotional crisis. But Ennis was protective enough about Jack to order soup, and to worry when he saw a storm approaching as Jack was on the mountain ... I think it's very clear in the story and pretty clear in the movie that he feels terrible about that. Especially because his refusal to live with Jack was based (or at least partly based) on the fear of this very outcome.