Ennis and Old Man Twist

[opinionista]

I agree with you opinionista, however it was that Ennis gets in touch with the Twists before he gets there, and he must do this (I think) to know where they live, there wouldn't be any talk beyond this in the calll or postcard.  I guess it is possible that he could just turn up in Lightning Flat and ask people (like Jack did to find Ennis after the divorce), but the way that Ma Twist come out on to the porch suggests an expected visitor.

One question though, when you asked "What about Bobby" I thought: What about "What about Bobby"?  Do you mean that the Twists might leave the ranch to him?  But why would they leave it to Ennis?  Is this assuming that Jack was dead also?  If not they would leave it to Jack surely.  I think I'm confusing myself.

I think I got confused too. I thought I read someone suggested if Ennis and Jack were to live together at the Twist's ranch, then Jack dies before Ennis does, or something, afterwards his dad dies and Mrs. Twist ends up leaving the ranch to Ennis. So I figured if that were to happen, i mean if Jack and Ennis would indeed live together at the ranch, Jack would make sure Bobby would come to Lightning Flat sometimes and get to know his grandparents. So then, why Mrs. Twist leave the ranch to Ennis when Bobby was Jack's son?

[David]

Chris:   Well obviously the Twists would want to leave Jack the ranch.   But after Jacks death,  I can see Ma Twist wanting to change the will.    She and Pa Twist have no connection to Lureen or Bobby.   They know that Lureen and her Dad are rich and that Bobby will be well set in his future.

I can definately see Ma Twist asking Ennis if he wanted to come up to live and work on the ranch after the old man dies.    Then she would change the will to leave the place to him after she dies.

[serious crayons]

If Ennis and Jack lived together on the ranch, and then Old Man Twist died and then Jack died, Ennis would get the ranch.

In the story as it is, Ennis might conceivably still get the ranch if he kept going back to visit Mrs. Twist. But I doubt he would do that.

But living alone there? I don't know ... That ranch is bleak even by Ennis' standards.

[Brown Eyes]

LOL!  Whoa people.  This thread really is getting crazy and funny.  Seriously, re-read like the last 5 posts.  Now no one seems to agree on who's dead or not.  And how did this end up being a discussion about inheritance and changing wills, etc.?
 

Well, I guess the serious note in all of this is that if Ennis had lived with Jack he might have been better off financially.  Way back on Brokeback he rejects Jack's offer of financial help, but things really might have been easier for Ennis if he'd swallowed his pride and accepted a little help.  Ennis and Jack seem like very capable cowboys when they're working together.  If Jack could supply Ennis with a ranch to start with, even in bad condition like Lightning Flat seems to be, then it might have been a great thing.  They could at least have been their own bosses.

Ok, back to the question of how Ennis contacted Jack's folks. In the real film.  Well, he hangs up with Lureen before asking the phone number of Jack's parents.  Maybe there's an off chance that Jack and Ennis had exchanged this type of info in the past.  He must have called.  I agree that there's no way he would have shown up out of the blue.  A postcard seems too slow.

[serious crayons]

LOL!  Whoa people.  This thread really is getting crazy and funny.  Seriously, re-read like the last 5 posts.  Now no one seems to agree on who's dead or not.  And how did this end up being a discussion about inheritance and changing wills, etc.?

LOL. OK, I think it's time to call in an attorney who specializes in estate law. I don't want to see this wind up in probate.

        

As for the other question, I think we've narrowed down the possibilities. He gets their number from directory assistance and calls to say he wants to stop by and pay his respects. He doesn't mention the ashes. He tells them when he'll be there, and goes in the next day or two.

Now would she have had the cherry cake sitting around anyway, or did she make it in anticipation of his visit?

And on a slightly unrelated topic, don't you love how the light shines through Old Man Twist's eyes when he's ranting and gives him that slight crazy-old-geezer look?

[Aussie Chris]

LOL!  Whoa people.  This thread really is getting crazy and funny.  Seriously, re-read like the last 5 posts.  Now no one seems to agree on who's dead or not.  And how did this end up being a discussion about inheritance and changing wills, etc.?

LOL! Hysterical  I love it, but I got lost!  And I thought my first reply was crazy!

Ok, back to the question of how Ennis contacted Jack's folks. In the real film.  Well, he hangs up with Lureen before asking the phone number of Jack's parents.  Maybe there's an off chance that Jack and Ennis had exchanged this type of info in the past.  He must have called.  I agree that there's no way he would have shown up out of the blue.  A postcard seems too slow.

Well this assumes that Jack's folks even had a phone.  But if they did, I doubt Ennis would have it already, after all, do we really know that he ever called Jack at his home with Lureen?  I think the book says he did, but in the film it's all postcards isn't it?

[tiawahcowboy]

Somewhere along the line, I think the role of economics would have entered into it. In the Annie Proulx story, the old man has a line that didn't make it into the screenplay: "I can't get no help out here." It might be interesting to see him deal with the conflict between his disdain for his son and his probable dislike of Ennis on the one hand, and, on the other hand, the fact that he suddenly has two healthy, strappin' young fellas to run his ranch for him and maybe turn the place around.

"I can't get no help out here" was a rather interesting thing for John Twist to say.

In the book, Jack father actually said that AFTER  Jack's mother said, "He used a come home every year, even after he was married and down in Texas, and help his daddy on the ranch for a week fix the gates and mow and all. I kept his room like it was when he was a boy and I think he appreciated that. You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Mrs. Twist had mentioned to Ennis that Jack did go up to Lightning Flat to the ranch every year and help his daddy; but, his old man talked like Jack never even showed up. Jack apparently worked hard as much as he could to get his father to accept him by working with him and his father still was not pleased.

As far as the story goes, since Jack never worked for his father-in-law when Lureen's old man was alive, it probably was somewhat expensive for Jack to make a trip up to Wyoming every year to help his father. According to what Annie Proulx wrote, it was quite a while, or at least seems to be, after Ennis had Thanksgiving dinner with his daughters, Alma and her grocer husband, before Lureen's father died.

[tiawahcowboy]

I think that if Jack had actually talked to Ennis about working on the John C. Twist, Sr. Lightning Flat ranch together, they might have gotten away with living in a cabin together on the ranch.

Unlike like what I have read elsewhere in other Brokeback Forums, I believe that other than the fact that they knew Ennis Del Mar was a good friend of their son, Jack, they did not have a clue as to what his exact relationship had been with their son when Ennis showed up. And, I seriously doubt they even had a clue as to what kind of relationship the guys had other than being best friends. Both of the guys in the book were very masculine and certainly were not pretty boys.

I have known many parents who were church goers and they did not have a clue about having a son who was homosexual and even had a boyfriend whom they also met. I have even heard preachers say they could recognize homosexuals and they even believed that there were none in their churches (they didn't have a clue, either).

Aside note here: Cox Cable TV is showing Brokeback Mountain on Pay Per View now. Just saw the commercial.

[opinionista]

I think that if Jack had actually talked to Ennis about working on the John C. Twist, Sr. Lightning Flat ranch together, they might have gotten away with living in a cabin together on the ranch.

Unlike like what I have read elsewhere in other Brokeback Forums, I believe that other than the fact that they knew Ennis Del Mar was a good friend of their son, Jack, they did not have a clue as to what his exact relationship had been with their son when Ennis showed up. And, I seriously doubt they even had a clue as to what kind of relationship the guys had other than being best friends. Both of the guys in the book were very masculine and certainly were not pretty boys.

I have known many parents who were church goers and they did not have a clue about having a son who was homosexual and even had a boyfriend whom they also met. I have even heard preachers say they could recognize homosexuals and they even believed that there were none in their churches (they didn't have a clue, either).

Aside note here: Cox Cable TV is showing Brokeback Mountain on Pay Per View now. Just saw the commercial.

I assumed they know because Mrs. Twsit offers Ennis to go up to Jack's room and even lets him take the shirts. No person would take a couple of shirts that belonged to a friend as a keepsake, unless something else was going on. That's too personal and intimate. Besides, Jack's dad sort of hints it when rambling on about what Jack used to say. Maybe they didn't know for a fact, but they knew there was something different about Jack. Parents always know this things, it's just that some are in denial.

[tiawahcowboy]

I assumed they know because Mrs. Twsit offers Ennis to go up to Jack's room and even lets him take the shirts. No person would take a couple of shirts that belonged to a friend as a keepsake, unless something else was going on. That's too personal and intimate. Besides, Jack's dad sort of hints it when rambling on about what Jack used to say. Maybe they didn't know for a fact, but they knew there was something different about Jack. Parents always know this things, it's just that some are in denial.

You have to remember that the taking of the shirts activity is only in the movie, Annie Proulx didn't write how Ennis got the shirts out of the Twist house. When the location of the story changes from Lightning Flat to Signal were Ennis is at the car wash washing the Stoutamire Ranch horse blankets and after he buys a Brokeback Mountain postcard at Higgins' Gift shop, we discover that Ennis has the shirts. The "it" in the quote refers to the postcard.

When it came -- thirty cents -- he pinned it up in his trailer, brass-headed tack in each corner. Below it he drove a nail and on the nail he hung the wire hanger and the two old shirts suspended from it. He stepped back and looked at the ensemble through a few stinging tears.  "Jack, I swear -- " he said, though Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind.

In the book, where it states that Ennis discovered the shirts hidden in a tiny jog in the wall in the curtained off makeshift closet, it only says the shirts were hanging from a nail. It does not say they were even on a hanger. I don't think that the "jog" was large enough to conceal a shirt on a hanger.

At the north end of the closet a tiny jog in the wall made a slight hiding place and here, stiff with long suspension from a nail, hung a shirt.