Author Topic: Why the Lie?  (Read 52366 times)

Offline David

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2006, 10:28:35 pm »
Oh most definately it was referring to Masturbating.    Think of how the word was used in the book.   "I must have wrang it out a hundred times thinking about you".

Doesn't everyone fantasize about their dream partner when playing with themselves?  ;)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2006, 01:37:41 am »
Oh wow, this conversation is taking an interesting turn. 

Well, the thing that struck me in that list of definitions is how often the word twist is used in relation to the words wring/ wrang.  One more indication of what's on Ennis's mind...


And I totally agree with David.  This may be one of the few concepts in the book that isn't ambiguous... at least in how I read it.
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Offline welliwont

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Ennis keeps remembering Jack during the four year interval
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2006, 07:01:33 am »
Huh?  Was there a discussion on this that I missed?  How is it that we can tell Ennis is thinking of Jack while spreading tar and at the drive-in?  I just about agree with everything you see in the film, but this one (particularly the drive-in) escapes me.  Was it on TOB?

Hey Chris:  What is TOB?  The Other Board??  please confirm or explain...  Here is one more explanation that I read on IMDb two days ago:  The boy in the film is telling the pretty little blonde girl that it is illegal to park their trailer, ie:  camp on the beach, and that is reminiscent of the illegal camping that Aguirre insisted that the herder do up on Brokeback.  Do you think that is too obscure?

The reason we believe that Ennis is thinking of Jack when he is tarring, is who in their right mind would not be reminiscing and pining for last summer's peaceful idylic job up with his buddy Jack?  Versus being teamed up with *such* a blabbermouth, man!   --  if I had to listen to him all day!  And plus the fact the the guy says "broke back".

« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 11:27:00 pm by J »
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2006, 10:06:20 am »
I think a lot of the phrases in the story have multiple meanings, just like a lot of lines in the movie do. So, yeah, "wrang it out" and "rolled his own" and "stemmed the rose" had particular meanings in colloquial Wyoming speech in the 60's, but in the context of the story, in the hotel room that "stank of semen," there's sex in just about everything those guys say.
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Offline David

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2006, 10:20:47 am »
I think a lot of the phrases in the story have multiple meanings, just like a lot of lines in the movie do. So, yeah, "wrang it out" and "rolled his own" and "stemmed the rose" had particular meanings in colloquial Wyoming speech in the 60's, but in the context of the story, in the hotel room that "stank of semen," there's sex in just about everything those guys say.

Now see,  I interpeted the "Roll your own" comment to mean picking up a cowboy.

Ennis says :"How about you?"

Jacks replies:" I've been riding the bulls, not rolling my own".

So I figure he means he's been too busy riding real bulls in the rodeo, not in the the bars trying to pick up a bull (cowboy) of his own!    Which we know is a lie, as he doesn't want to make Ennis jealous.


Just like when Jack tries to pickup the Rodeo clown in the bar.   The bartender sees Jack get rejected.  So when the Bartender then says :" Ever try Calf roping?"  I take that he is telling Jack "try sticking to picking up girls"   
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 10:23:24 am by DavidinHartford »

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2006, 10:33:49 am »
*pulls out book to make sure I've got the quote right*

Ok, here it is:

Quote
"...I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you. You do it with other guys? Jack?"

"Shit no," said Jack, who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own.

I interpreted both "wrang it out" and "rolling his own" to refer to masturbating, and "riding more than bulls" to mean that story-Jack had had sex with other men during those four years. (Movie-Jack is a different case; from the Jimbo incident, I got the impression that movie-Jack tried to pick up other men, but didn't have any luck, and ended up with Lureen after he had gotten desperately lonely for contact with another person.)

("Rolling his own" also refers to making his own cigarettes, right? But that meaning doesn't make much sense in context.)
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tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2006, 10:55:08 am »
This definition most certainly can be analogous to masturbation.  Whether the word is supposed to mean it or not.  Especially as in 1962, Alma was still doing laundry, where you would 'wring out' the laundry to squeeze out the excess water.  An action Ennis is most certainly familiar with.

Well, people with dirty minds can make almost any word or phrase in the English language be related to sexual activity. Alma was rubbing the dirt off of the laundry in the sink. Well, "rub off" is another euphemism for "masturbation, too.

Alma does not even come into the Brokeback Mountain story until 1963 and when she is using the washboard in her kitchen sink in the movie, Ennis is working as a wrangler and/or for the Wyoming Highway department. Both of their daughters have born.

But, in the book, Ennis worked for the Highway department on weekdays and as a wrangler on weekend days AFTER they moved to Riverton and the 2nd daughter was born in Riverton.

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2006, 11:18:47 am »
Well, people with dirty minds can make almost any word or phrase in the English language be related to sexual activity. Alma was rubbing the dirt off of the laundry in the sink. Well, "rub off" is another euphemism for "masturbation, too.

I don't agree with this at all.  These characters were in a sexual love affair, I don't see it as having a dirty mind to perceive that their dialogue alluded to sex also.  I mean, to tell your post-coital lover that you "wrung it out about a 100 times" thinking about him: if that's not about masturbation, then I must have the mind of a gutter rat!  Peace. :laugh:
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tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2006, 12:25:14 pm »
I don't agree with this at all.  These characters were in a sexual love affair, I don't see it as having a dirty mind to perceive that their dialogue alluded to sex also.  I mean, to tell your post-coital lover that you "wrung it out about a 100 times" thinking about him: if that's not about masturbation, then I must have the mind of a gutter rat!  Peace. :laugh:

Well, as a person who lives on the other side of the world, Aussie Chris, you can disagree or agree with anything about the meaning of originally American coined words and expressions in the Western US States. 

I just think that Ennis Del Mar just thought all the sex he had with Jack up on Brokeback Mountain, which he enjoyed, and his wringing it out a hundred times might have been his remembrance of each of those times and he tried at least a hundred times to attempt to figure out, aka wring out, why he liked doin' it with Jack.

I have met people in real life who claimed to be straight; but, they said they just didn't understand why they liked to have, and wanted to have, sex with certain guys.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2006, 04:32:07 pm »
Well, people with dirty minds can make almost any word or phrase in the English language be related to sexual activity. Alma was rubbing the dirt off of the laundry in the sink. Well, "rub off" is another euphemism for "masturbation, too.

Um, you don't have to have a 'dirty mind' (whatever kind of moralistic statement that is  ::),) but just be aware that people use a great deal of euphemisms when speaking about certain things - hence 'choking the chicken/spanking the monkey/getting a woody/being with child' etc.

Alma does not even come into the Brokeback Mountain story until 1963 and when she is using the washboard in her kitchen sink in the movie, Ennis is working as a wrangler and/or for the Wyoming Highway department. Both of their daughters have born.

Doesn't matter, Ennis was living with his sister and brother for a long time in poverty circumstances, he most certainly knew how laundry was done back then and you can see Jack doing the same thing by the river up on the mountain when he's doing their laundry.

Not sure what your point is. 

It's a euphemism and quite an obvious one rather than a high school drop out imagining the word of 'wrang' as him thinking about a situation that has no solution.