Author Topic: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments  (Read 113021 times)

Offline serious crayons

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You know how some people have said they think Ennis says "I love you" when he finds the shirts? Well, I have always been so skeptical about this that I've never even bothered to look for it.

But today I was skipping around my rental DVD, watching key scenes maybe for one the last time until fall. And I had the volume up higher than usual and noticed I kept hearing little muttered things that I hadn't heard in the past. So when I got to the shirt scene I decided to listen -- and watch -- really closely.

And now I think I agree.

I looked for it exactly the way I've tried to figure out "sorry/s'alright" -- watching for whether Ennis' lips move -- and in that scene they don't, which is why I moved to the "no sorry" camp. But in the closet scene his lips do move -- only you can hardly see it because the shirts are in the way. It's right after he takes a deep breath, trying to smell Jack's scent on the shirts. You can only see about a quarter inch of his mouth. But he moves as it if saying three words -- those three particular ones, in fact. And under the music, you can just barely hear something that sounds like three words being muttered.

I rewound and watched it about four more times with the volume cranked to 60 and my eyes about three inches away from the screen, and each time I became more and more convinced.

What do you all think?

« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 04:48:55 pm by latjoreme »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 04:32:52 pm »
Tell you what.  Truth is...  I think I've heard it, too.  He definitely seems to be breathing some words of some kind into the shirts - whether it's just a tremendously deep sigh that sounds like "I love you" or not I'm not certain.  But I've seen and heard (with the volume cranked on my headphones) the very point of which you speak and concur that it is entirely possible.

That said, I don't know that he so much needs to say those actual words there to have it have the impact it does as far as I'm concerned.  The way he holds/caresses them and breathes in so deeply so as to try to smell Jack on the blue shirt just slays me every time, with or without confirmation of his actually saying that.  The words are almost superfluous to me, though I do understand the gravity of he of all people finally saying them, really, I do.
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gattaca

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2006, 04:37:56 pm »
My curiosity is piqued. I've heard/read this on other threads, but I'm gonna have to wait until my DVD is received in the mail. ;)
Having said that: if Ennis really did say "I love you", would we feel differently towards Enins?

Offline JennyC

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 05:07:19 pm »
There are a fews things that people said they noticed in the movie, but I never have.  I don't think I will hear the "I love you" even if I turn the volume to 60, but that does not really matter to me as I know he felt that way.

Having said that: if Ennis really did say "I love you", would we feel differently towards Enins?

Not to me.  I know he loves Jack and he wanted to say it out loud, but couldn't.  Thatís part of the reason that I am drawn to Ennisís character, his internal struggle with his feeling and never being able to fully express those repressed emotions.  That pain and struggle is not unique to Ennis, I think many of us have experienced the same some point in our lives. I agree that it would be so special if Ennis would ever say "I love you" to Jack, but that will be at a different time and in a different story.  Ennis is who he is.  Besides, Jack knows that Ennis loves him.  I wish Ennis has the courage; just as I wish myself have the courage to do things that I am afraid to.  But for him not doing that does not change how I feel for him. 

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2006, 05:57:02 pm »
Well, I'm not saying it casts Ennis or the movie or that scene into some whole new light. As Barb says, everything about that scene is already plenty devastating. And I'm not saying this indicates that Ennis suddenly understands for the first time that he loves Jack -- I'm one of those who firmly believes that Ennis knew that all along, even if he didn't use that word. And I believe Jack knew it. And I believe Ennis expresses his love in many ways, most of them nonverbal.

But I also think that, given that Ennis was not able to say "I love you" while Jack was still alive, the fact that he's now finally saying it (assuming he actually is) to an empty shirt adds an extra touch of poignancy, tragedy and romanticism to an already heartbreaking scene. I know that what must be going through his mind is how much he longs to say it to Jack himself, but knows it's too late. (It's possible he even would have said it to Jack in November -- when Cassie used the word in the bus station, I believe Ennis suddenly realized how accurately it described his own feelings.) All of which make me feel just a tiny bit sadder for him than I already did.

And on top of that I'm amazed that -- after 13 (I think) viewings, long after I've been able to recite each line with the actors and anticipate every glance and facial expression and cough before it happens -- it's still possible to discover something new about the movie.

I would say my belief that he says it has gone from 0% to maybe 75%. (I think it's slightly easier to see, BTW, than it is to hear. But neither is very easy.)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 06:08:20 pm by latjoreme »

Offline nic

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 06:30:52 pm »
This is interesting, if one believes he does say it on finding the shirts.  Because to many, certainly to many casual viewers, the natural response to the line "Jack, I swear..." is "I love you" so if he said it earlier it takes away some of the importance from that final line.  However, for many non-casual viewers (ie us!) the "I swear.." line has multiple meanings other than but also including "I love you".

I'm constantly surprised at how much importance those three magic words are ascribed in relation to the BBM discussion & their absence from the short story & novel.  It is yet another mark of the skill of those involved that they didn't give in & have an obvious "I love you" put in, leaving it open for eternal discussion.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 07:31:58 pm »
if Ennis really did say "I love you", would we feel differently towards Enins?

As Katherine said so well, I'd feel just a tiny bit sadder for him (if that's possible).  But Jack and I always knew he loved him, even if he didn't acknowledge it to himself.  Jack wouldn't have stood it all for so long if he didn't.
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Offline wolf

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 09:01:55 pm »
I see it, every time.  Whether it's actually there or not, no one seems to know, but for me it's a definite maybe  :P.

'discovering' those three words didn't change a thing either. Ennis was still Ennis.  Just as mute as ever, perhaps more so given he was only able to utter the words when there was no one to hear them. 

just for the record, I'm also firmly in the "I'm sorry" camp, so very possibly I'm a non-existent-line-imaginer  ;D.

w

« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 09:06:43 pm by wolf »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 09:02:26 pm »
This movie just amazes me for the amount of ambiguous dialogue and lines lost amidst breathing and music, etc.  My feelings for Ennis certainly don't change if he really did say it.  It just serves to confirm what most of us believe about him and his feelings towards Jack.  I have to say that I'm glad it's soooo imperceptible as to remain a subject of debate.  It's almost like it's there if you want it to be there... or not... as the case may be.  I think having it not be there adds a bit of weight to the "Jack I swear..." moment.  I think we and Jack's ghost are locked in suspense at the end hoping and hoping to hear Ennis say "I love you."  Well, if he's already said it to the shirts... at least Jack's ghost would have already heard it.
 ::) :'(

I'm still in the camp of hearing the "I'm sorry" out of Ennis during the second tent scene.  I truly do hear it (I always heard it in the theatres and I hear it on my DVD too).  But, I truly want to hear it... so maybe my judgment is skewed.


So, onto another bit of whispered or impreceptible dialogue... Actually, I'm just curious, before I bring it up for real... who here knows about the first tent scene controversy regarding something Jack may or may not have said?  This is essentially a bit of dialogue that may (or may not) be lost amidst his moans...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 09:04:04 pm by atz75 »
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Offline JennyC

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 09:06:38 pm »
who here knows about the first tent scene controversy regarding something Jack may or may not have said?  This is essentially a bit of dialogue that may (or may not) be lost amidst his moans...

Which part?  The "come on" part, that I don't hear (I start to think I have some hearing problems) but see it in the subtitle, or the part that, rumor had it, Jack said "Ennis"?