The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments

[Front-Ranger]

Not to change the subject but...I was listening to the soundtrack this morning, and I heard Emmylou Harris singing in "A Love that Will Never Grow Old," "just lay back in my arms for one more night." It reminded me of Jack whispering, "Lay back" during TS2. In fact, that song has the words Jack would sing if he were another person, just as "He Was a Friend of Mine" has the words Ennis would sing if he were another person.

[dly64]

Not to change the subject but...I was listening to the soundtrack this morning, and I heard Emmylou Harris singing in "A Love that Will Never Grow Old," "just lay back in my arms for one more night." It reminded me of Jack whispering, "Lay back" during TS2. In fact, that song has the words Jack would sing if he were another person, just as "He Was a Friend of Mine" has the words Ennis would sing if he were another person.

That's why I love that particular song! To me, it exemplifies everything Jack feels. Same with, “I Don’t Want to Say Goodbye.” Bernie Taupin knows how to write lyrics!!

[Aussie Chris]

Ok, I respect the convictions of the people on this thread.  I'm not trying to cast dispersions here, ruin anyone's fun, or ask people to see it my way.  Clearly, people are hearing things with such clarity that they are incredulous at the thought of someone else not hearing it.  I am happy to concede the possibility, but right now I am curious about the phenomenon itself?

First of all, the "Sorry / S'Alright" debate started almost immediately after we all saw the film for the first time.  I remember not hearing it initially, then being told about it and checking it in the cinema the next time(s) to conclude that you may or may not hear it.  I have now resolved this within myself and side on the "S'Alright" side, but I'm not locked into any one opinion on it.  The point is, something can be heard and just about everyone does.

But this "I love you" and "F*ck me" stuff seems to have only happened over the last couple of days or weeks.  How is this possible?  Between us on this board, we must have seen BBM thousands of times?  Something may be heard in these scenes, but for those who are strongly convinced that these words are there, doesn't it seem suspicious to you that you had to listen to the scenes over and over for nothing to become a maybe, then a probability, before finally a conviction was reached?  How do you explain your own seemingly variable belief?

[serious crayons]

for those who are strongly convinced that these words are there, doesn't it seem suspicious to you that you had to listen to the scenes over and over for nothing to become a maybe, then a probability, before finally a conviction was reached?  How do you explain your own seemingly variable belief?

But that's not at all how it worked for me (see my post above). Without being too repetitive, I first heard about the "I love you" back on imdb, so we're talking sometime in February or March. I dismissed it as complete baloney. I didn't think about it again or see any discussion of it until I noticed it for myself, in the way I described above. So my belief wasn't variable, it went from absolute disbelief to pretty much full belief in the two seconds that I saw it onscreen (when I say "pretty much full belief," I'm acknowledging that it's possible to interpret those lip-movements and sounds as being something other than "I love you"-- sobs, perhaps -- and also that it took me a couple more viewings to make sure I wasn't completely imagining things). It's not a conclusion I reached after talking to people here, it's something I discovered for myself when least expecting it.

Immediately after noticing it, I started this thread, on June 6. Other people posted who had already noticed it. There have since been a couple of people who didn't see it at first but, after being told exactly when and where and how to look, watched the movie again and reported later that they did.

I'd compare it to the hand-holding. I never noticed it until someone pointed it out. Then I went back and watched TS1 again and saw it. Many other people have asked where and when to look for it (it's dark and subtle and near the edge of the screen), but once they do they see it, too.

Or, as I said in a post a while back, I'd compare it to the S-E-X in "The Lion King" movie. Sorry to repeat this story, but it was amazing and has relevance here. I read when it first came out in the '90s that Christian groups were protesting there's a point in the movie where you could see those letters spelled out in dust. I assumed that was ridiculous imaginations-run-wild stuff and forgot all about it. Ten years later, I had small children who owned the video. so I wound up watching it, conservatively estimating, 30 times (not always concentrating intently). One day, after maybe seeing it about 15 times already, I happened to glance at the screen and damn if it wasn't right there: S E X, spelled out in dust, for about half a second. And from then on it was clear as day, once I knew when and where to look.

That's why I say that, though I haven't heard the "fuck me" myself, I'm open to the possibility that it's there.

[serious crayons]

OK, I got curious about just how many people believe one way or the other about some of these things. So I posted a poll about it. You can find it here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=3633.0

I don't mean to discourage continued discussion on this thread, though. Maybe we can keep that thread to a straightforward "have you seen it or not" and we can continue discussion here about just how wild an imagination you have to have to believe they exist. 

[Aussie Chris]

But that's not at all how it worked for me (see my post above). Without being too repetitive, I first heard about the "I love you" back on imdb, so we're talking sometime in February or March. I dismissed it as complete baloney. I didn't think about it again or see any discussion of it until I noticed it for myself, in the way I described above. So my belief wasn't variable, it went from absolute disbelief to pretty much full belief in the two seconds that I saw it onscreen (when I say "pretty much full belief," I'm acknowledging that it's possible to interpret those lip-movements and sounds as being something other than "I love you"-- sobs, perhaps -- and also that it took me a couple more viewings to make sure I wasn't completely imagining things). It's not a conclusion I reached after talking to people here, it's something I discovered for myself when least expecting it.

*chuckles*  Somehow Katherine, I'm hearing you in Tweetie-Bird-mode saying: I did... I did hear him say "I love you"!   Ok, ok, because I trust you implicitly, I will give this another go and get some other people to listen on my system.  I'm still sceptical, but that's ok because sceptics ask questions and try to understand as opposed to cynics who cover their ears and say "la la la - I'm not hearing you"!

I'd compare it to the hand-holding. I never noticed it until someone pointed it out. Then I went back and watched TS1 again and saw it. Many other people have asked where and when to look for it (it's dark and subtle and near the edge of the screen), but once they do they see it, too.

Unfortunately I can't see this one, although I do believe you.  It's just that in Australia they haven't released a 4:3 version (nor are they likely to).

Or, as I said in a post a while back, I'd compare it to the S-E-X in "The Lion King" movie. Sorry to repeat this story, but it was amazing and has relevance here. I read when it first came out in the '90s that Christian groups were protesting there's a point in the movie where you could see those letters spelled out in dust. I assumed that was ridiculous imaginations-run-wild stuff and forgot all about it. Ten years later, I had small children who owned the video. so I wound up watching it, conservatively estimating, 30 times (not always concentrating intently). One day, after maybe seeing it about 15 times already, I happened to glance at the screen and damn if it wasn't right there: S E X, spelled out in dust, for about half a second. And from then on it was clear as day, once I knew when and where to look.

I have seen the S-E-X in Lion King though.  I remember seeing some screen shots a few years back, I'll see if I can locate them.

[David]

Okay, I clearly heard him saying, "Muck me." 

Indeed!    As I was trying to say before, I heard this and wasn't even listening for it.

Nobody had ever mentioned it online, so the thought wasn't planted in my head.   I was startled to hear it.   But I dismissed it as my imagination, i didnt even replay these the scene to hear it again.   I just figured I was crazy.  LOL

But to have had several people report that they heard it cannot be a coincidence.    It is so subtle it just flows and goes by unoticed.

We have always speculated there were different quality DVDs out there.  Ever since the DVD came out there have been people arguing over how some DVDs are too dark compared to others.  Perhaps now we may have some with better audio than others?

As I said,  I wasn't looking for it and I heard it.

[serious crayons]

I will give this another go and get some other people to listen on my system.

OK. It still may or may not work. Systems vary, even DVDs -- as David points out -- may vary. And most of all, interpretations of a VERY ambiguous moment vary. Keep in mind that "I love you" will NEVER be clear as a bell, not even to me. It won't even be clear as the S-E-X in Lion King (though I'm glad to hear you saw that one!). So actually I don't insist ala Tweety -- I admit there's at least a 5 or 10 percent chance he's sobbing or just twitching or something.

Even 2robots4u's friend who analyzes tapes for the police force may not find it; it's certainly not clear enough to be admissible evidence in court. Now maybe those people who scrutinize Osama bin Laden's videos for clues as to his plans and whereabouts ... are any of them on this board?

Personally, I like mvansand76's story about having her boyfriend watch the scene without telling him what to look for, and then asking him afterward if he heard anything and her boyfriend casually replying something like, "Well, only him saying 'I love you' into the shirts ..."

Unfortunately I can't see this one, although I do believe you.  It's just that in Australia they haven't released a 4:3 version (nor are they likely to).

If you're interested in seeing it, check out this YouTube video, "4 Nights in 20 Years." It's simply four scenes strung together: TS1 and 2, the Motel Siesta scene and their last night sitting together by the campfire. Watch the lower lefthand corner of the screen during TS1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTMBth4-lg&search=brokeback

[Marge_Innavera]

doesn't it seem suspicious to you that you had to listen to the scenes over and over for nothing to become a maybe, then a probability, before finally a conviction was reached?

Personally, I didn't have to listen to the scenes over and over; I heard the "I'm sorry" on the first DVD viewing. And "Jack's sweet plea"  came as a complete surprise.

  How do you explain your own seemingly variable belief?

Either the bad sound editing or just whispered ad libs (by definition, not very loud) that were deliberately left in.

[Aussie Chris]

OK. It still may or may not work. Systems vary, even DVDs -- as David points out -- may vary. And most of all, interpretations of a VERY ambiguous moment vary. Keep in mind that "I love you" will NEVER be clear as a bell, not even to me. It won't even be clear as the S-E-X in Lion King (though I'm glad to hear you saw that one!). So actually I don't insist ala Tweety -- I admit there's at least a 5 or 10 percent chance he's sobbing or just twitching or something.

Hi Katherine, I'm afraid I didn't have much luck.  I did this as "scientifically" as I could.  A couple of people in the room, very high volume, and I played each scene without saying what was being looked for.  I asked if any vocalisations were heard and replayed each scene to give them a second chance.  We talked about it, and only then did I suggest "I love you" (etc).  Again, replay the scenes 2 or 3 times to give it the best chance of something being picked up.

Everyone seemed to be the most sure that there was definitely no "F*ck Me", we could only pick up what we presume were breathing, grunts (etc), their clothing moving, belt buckles, and the sounds associated with their changing postures.  We couldn't hear anything that sounded like words at all.

Skip to the "I love you" scene.  This was dismissed by the others quite quickly as non-existent, but I encouraged them to look and listen carefully because Ennis' mouth clearly moves as if to say several words just as he lifts the sleave of the shirts.  However, my sister pointed out that the clearest sound during that time was Ennis' breathing, and at the exact moment of mouth movement we could clearly hear an exhalation.  As far as the soundtrack that we were listening to is concerned, this eliminated the possibility of words (assuming that what we hear is the actual sound from the day of filming and there was no ADR work done).

Seemingly easier to hear was the "sorry" / "s'alright".  Much more debate was generated though with two camps forming.  The first heard one "sorry" followed by two "s'alrights", while the second that it was three "s'alrights" citing no mouth movements from Ennis as proof (given that it only makes sense for Ennis to say this).  But we've heard these arguments before, so it's not surprising that this group would be no different.  The possibility of "come 'ere" preceding this was accepted as possible although it was felt that it was more likely to be the sound of Jack's mouth opening in readiness to say whatever-it-is-that-he-says.

Ok, I've done my best, the group here were in agreement that it is only TS2 that there were definite words spoken, with some variation in what the actual words were.  Both TS1 and the shirts scene were both dismissed as having no words spoken, but enough incidental sounds (including grunts and breathing) to possibly sound like words, even though we couldn't make any out, at least on my sound system.
Sorry, I tried.