The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments

[wolf]

Heya wolf,

Nice post.  Welcome to BetterMost by the way.  Pour yourself some coffee and help yourself to some cherry cake.
 

thanks you  .  but ya got whiskey or somethin?

W

[Brown Eyes]

thanks you  .  but ya got whiskey or somethin?

W

Sure we have whiskey. Tell ya what, we've got some beans too... if prefer those to cake just now.

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

This movie just amazes me for the amount of ambiguous dialogue and lines lost amidst breathing and music, etc.  My feelings for Ennis certainly don't change if he really did say it.  It just serves to confirm what most of us believe about him and his feelings towards Jack.  I have to say that I'm glad it's soooo imperceptible as to remain a subject of debate.  It's almost like it's there if you want it to be there... or not... as the case may be.  I think having it not be there adds a bit of weight to the "Jack I swear..." moment.  I think we and Jack's ghost are locked in suspense at the end hoping and hoping to hear Ennis say "I love you."  Well, if he's already said it to the shirts... at least Jack's ghost would have already heard it.

I agree with all of this^.

I had never imagined Ennis saying "I love you" into the shirts and I have always, always loved him. I am really excited to watch for this the next time I see this movie!

[wolf]

Sure we have whiskey. Tell ya what, we've got some beans too... if prefer those to cake just now.

I'm gonna eat them beans while I watch the Twist House scene again right here on my computer.  First time I've watched it thusly and being so close really helps with the details!   Wonder if I'll hear the magic words  .

w

[serious crayons]

(Wonder if I'll hear the magic words  .

Weird. At the very moment I read the line above, I heard someone on the TV blaring in the next room, which my husband has fallen asleep in front of, say "I love you." I hope that's a good omen.

I hereby offer a huge reward to anyone else (in addition to Daphne and Barb) who backs me up on this. To be paid in a generous sum of smiley icons. Wolf, please crank your volume up as high as it goes and sit right in front of the screen and be prepared to notice the slightest little facial movement or sound. I can't emphasize enough its subtlety.

[Penthesilea]

What was the wedding ring in the motel scene I should watch for?

Also, when you list "hand holdin' ", are you referring to TS1, or what I affectionately refer to as "the reach around"?

I previously asked for input on my interpretation of this "reach around" on another website board, but nobody could conclusively answer it.

I wanted to know, politely, if not naively, if Ennis was **ahem** "holding" Jack's _ _ _ _ _ or if he was trying to get his balance or if he and Jack were just trying to hold each other somehow....

Does anyone here know?

Just curious and not trying to offend.....

Thanks!

Welcome to BetterMost, Daphne.
We had a 6 pages long thread about the hand holding/reaching around in TS1. It's here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=615.0

Enjoy!

[Jane]

OK....  here goes. 

So, there are people in the world who believe that you can hear Jack say "f*** me" twice in the midst of the action in tent scene #1.  I think I know what they're talking about (there seems to be at least one moment where this could be a possibility)... but I truly believe that it's just Jack moaning and people projecting their own ideas onto the situation.    Actually, this is a case where I think it's very important for the encounter to happen in intense silence (other than breathing, etc.).  So, I don't want to believe that he actually says this. 

But, there it is... the first tent scene controversy... do with it what you will.

 

I,ve literally only found this thread today.  I watched "that scene" twice with the sound way way up and he DOES say it, twice!!!!   Jake Gyllenhaal you little devil you.

[belbbmfan]

And sorry to disappoint everyone but we have heard from bilingual folks from all over the world about how screwed up the sub titles and the screen captions for the hearing impaired are.  I watched the whole thing with the ENGLISH  screen captions on and they a DEAD WRONG in more than one place.

Seems strange to me that while so many attention was given to detail during the making of the film, other aspects of it were kind of neglected. Like the subtitles (and yes the dutch/french version I saw had Ennis saying 'I'm sorry') but also the original trailer. There were scenes and lines (Jack:"guess if were gonna be working together we might start drinking together") in the trailer that never appeared in the film.
Ah well, maybe it was all done on purpose, so our brokeback would never end...

[Daphne7661]

I have found several errors as well with the English subtitles.

Sometimes, what is said is wrong (like when Ennis is leaving the Twist farm at the end, and he is outside holding the shirts in the bag - the subtitles have him saying, "Thank you, M'am," but what he really says is "Thank you for this."  That's a HUGE difference to me.

Other times, who says what is wrong.  Like in TS2, the subtitles make it look like it is Ennis who says "I'm sorry," which leads us to believe that Ennis is possibly sorry for having taken off in the morning without so much as a goodbye to poor Jack, when, really, the "I'm Sorry" line is uttered by Jack because, as I interpret it, he is sorry for having "pushed" Ennis into kissing him.  (Jack was always afraid to scare poor Ennis off and was always careful about what he said and didn't say or how he approached him, etc.)...

As for the conflicting reports of what is being heard and said, I have not yet heard the "F _ _ _  _ _ " by Jack in TS1, but will look for it.  I HAVE heard the "I Love You" in the shirt scene at the end.  I don't necessarily want to hear it because I believe we all know exactly how Jack and Ennis feel about each other and why each of them has never really said it to the other over the years, but I do see and hear Ennis breathe that "I Love You" into the shirts as he exhales.

[serious crayons]

I HAVE heard the "I Love You" in the shirt scene at the end.  I don't necessarily want to hear it because I believe we all know exactly how Jack and Ennis feel about each other and why each of them has never really said it to the other over the years, but I do see and hear Ennis breathe that "I Love You" into the shirts as he exhales.

Thank you for that, Daphne! And here is your reward:



I actually love the "I love you." I, too, believe that Jack and Ennis know how each feels about the other. But I also suspect that Ennis hasn't previously applied that actual word to his feelings. (My theory -- which I already mentioned above, but what the heck, I'll repeat it -- is that Cassie's use of the word in the bus station provokes an epiphany that gets him to start thinking in those terms.)

So in that respect, it's kind of a happy thing. On the other hand, the fact that he's saying it too late, to an empty shirt, is unutterably said. Either way, for me it ratchets up the already overwhelming emotions of the moment a few notches.