Gay Marriage Sinks Miss California's shot at Crown

[delalluvia]

yep. very few bigots want to give up their beliefs and understand what they're actually saying, especially if  that bigotry is based on the victimhood they have been taught all their lifes.

Because of course, they've never been victimized before, right?

So while IMO they're trying to defend an untenable position, they will still try to do it and, I guess, hope that other people will be hesitant to criticize believing that someone's political correct worldview is some sort of sacred cow no one should criticize

Interesting that you consider equal rights for gays to be a 'politically correct worldview',  Jess.  You and Bill may consider bigotry against gays to be something only the PC correct crowd protests against, but I don't.

[milomorris]

Interesting that you consider equal rights for gays to be a 'politically correct worldview',  Jess.  You and Bill may consider bigotry against gays to be something only the PC correct crowd protests against, but I don't.

Well it is indeed a PC crowd value. That doesn't mean that they are exclusive in this regard. There are other groups that feel this way too. Quakers for example. Even parts of denominations like Episcopalians, United Methodists, and Presbyterians are embracing the concept of equal rights for sexual minorities.

And that's a good thing, because the more this is about an imbalance in civil rights, the more solidly our efforts can move forward.

[injest]

Because of course, they've never been victimized before, right?

Interesting that you consider equal rights for gays to be a 'politically correct worldview',  Jess.  You and Bill may consider bigotry against gays to be something only the PC correct crowd protests against, but I don't.

I dont think that everyone (including some gay people) that think that a marriage like straights have are the be all and end all of existence to be bigots...believe it or not there are other issues that some gay people are interested in. and not all gay people want to be married. so please stop speaking for everyone.

[delalluvia]

I dont think that everyone (including some gay people) that think that a marriage like straights have are the be all and end all of existence to be bigots...believe it or not there are other issues that some gay people are interested in. and not all gay people want to be married. so please stop speaking for everyone.

*sigh*  It doesn't matter if all the gay people want to be married or not.  What matters is that they are people who should have the choice whether they want to use it or not.

Consider voting.  Just because some people don't want to vote doesn't mean that some people shouldn't have the right to vote.

[injest]

*sigh*  It doesn't matter if all the gay people want to be married or not.  What matters is that they are people who should have the choice whether they want to use it or not.

Consider voting.  Just because some people don't want to vote doesn't mean that some people shouldn't have the right to vote.

but some people would feel that having the right to not be sold to be more pressing then the right to vote and THOSE people have a right to their belief that voting isn't as important to them and the right to say so!

[brokeplex]

  Jess.  You and Bill may consider bigotry against gays to be something only the PC correct crowd protests against, but I don't.

I don't speak for Jess, but IMO the PC crowd is only tangentially concerned about equal treatment under the law for gays or anyone else for that matter. The secular religion called "Political Correctness" is primarily concerned with establishing and wielding power and control, esp over those whom they have identified as being Politically Incorrect. Some of the techniques the PC crowd uses are censorship and vilification of their targeted enemies, esp when it helps them fundraise in order to manipulate the electoral system.

IMO it is absurdly naive to judge the PC crowd by their stated goals of tolerance and inclusion - the stated goals of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "sounded" on the whole to be admirable, and naive fools in the West were for a time conned into giving support for Marxism.

PC should to be judged only how it limits liberty and freedom of speech, how it treats individuals, and how it fosters the tyranny of the unelected bureaucracy where it has been implemented.

[injest]

I don't speak for Jess, but IMO the PC crowd is only tangentially concerned about equal treatment under the law for gays or anyone else for that matter. The secular religion called "Political Correctness" is primarily concerned with establishing and wielding power and control, esp over those whom they have identified as being Politically Incorrect. Some of the techniques the PC crowd uses are censorship and vilification of their targeted enemies, esp when it helps them fundraise in order to manipulate the electoral system.

IMO it is absurdly naive to judge the PC crowd by their stated goals of tolerance and inclusion - the stated goals of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "sounded" on the whole to be admirable, and naive fools in the West were for a time conned into giving support for Marxism.

PC should to be judged only how it limits liberty and freedom of speech, how it treats individuals, and how it fosters the tyranny of the unelected bureaucracy where it has been implemented.

You dont understand, Brokeplex...see, freedom is in very limited supply; so the only way the PC crowd can achieve freedom for THEIR friends is to take freedom from other people.

[brokeplex]

You dont understand, Brokeplex...see, freedom is in very limited supply; so the only way the PC crowd can achieve freedom for THEIR friends is to take freedom from other people.

The concept that "liberty" is a zero sum game is the hallmark of tyrannies and those who advocate tyranny. All of the tyrannies in modern history have stated goals that their constituents lauded as noble, it doesn't surprise me that the 21st century PC crowd somehow have deluded themselves into believing that they advocate more freedom.

[louisev]

The only person I have seen suggest that "liberty is a zero sum game" here is Jess.    So are you saying you are against equal marriage rights for gay couples, Brokeplex?  How about you, Jess?  Are you against equal marriage rights for gay couples?

[injest]

this isnt' about gay marriage, it is about being free to have your own opinion. It is about free speech.

and I have asked you before NOT to use my name. I have a screen name you may use. Thank you.