Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[MadLori]

Fans can be very flip and sophisticated about golden showers and whatever else in the name of artistic license when Jack and Ennis are paired. But let's face it, when Ennis engages in sexual experimentation with a new partner in life it is amazing how all that sophisticated offhandedness disappears to be replaced by schoolmarm primness and tut tutting disapproval!

While I share your bafflement over the reaction to events in the LS, it's not true that all other fics are given a free pass to do anything.  At this very moment on DC there's an approaching-heated discussion about people's dislike for something going on in one of Maggie's fics.  A lot of people take issues with things that have happened in "Beans & Crazies."  There are a lot of fics that have gotten the "out of character" accusation or that things have been taken in directions sexually that are hard to believe.  Nowhere near the reaction to the LS, of course, and I think you're probably right in that if it were Jack, it might have been okay.

And the rules are somewhat different in AU!AU.  The LS and other fics that follow along after canon (like Riding Fence, for example) are often held to a stronger standard of keeping the characters in character.  I don't believe that LS!Ennis is out of character as Louise has developed him.  Some people do.  Plain old ordinary AUs (like Leslie's fic, or mine) also are expected to hew closer to the canon-character line, although we get more leeway with taking the story in a different direction.  AU!AUs, while most people feel that you ought to find some essential core of the charcter and bring it into the new surroundings, get the most latitude.  A lot of character differences can be imagined for a Jack and Ennis that grew up differently, in different circumstances.

I'm saying that what might fly in an AU!AU might not fly in a post-canon fic.

[ifyoucantfixit]

I'm baaaaack!

Mickey Mouse says hello.  I missed y'all!

Caught up on all the 'fantabulous!' chapters - hoo-weee! ...but I'm woefully behind on the thread, so going back to where I left off, which was page 464 ... I think. 

 

Good to be home.  Did a lot of walking.  Hurt my knee, got swollen ankles, and caught a bug so now my throat is killing me....
And I gotta cook a turkey dinner Thursday.   Oh, well.

do what i do, go over to someone elses house for dinner and bring a side dish..heheh    great to see you back, hope the legs get better soon...janice

[magicmountain]

While I share your bafflement over the reaction to events in the LS, it's not true that all other fics are given a free pass to do anything.  At this very moment on DC there's an approaching-heated discussion about people's dislike for something going on in one of Maggie's fics.  A lot of people take issues with things that have happened in "Beans & Crazies."  There are a lot of fics that have gotten the "out of character" accusation or that things have been taken in directions sexually that are hard to believe.  Nowhere near the reaction to the LS, of course, and I think you're probably right in that if it were Jack, it might have been okay.

And the rules are somewhat different in AU!AU.  The LS and other fics that follow along after canon (like Riding Fence, for example) are often held to a stronger standard of keeping the characters in character.  I don't believe that LS!Ennis is out of character as Louise has developed him.  Some people do.  Plain old ordinary AUs (like Leslie's fic, or mine) also are expected to hew closer to the canon-character line, although we get more leeway with taking the story in a different direction.  AU!AUs, while most people feel that you ought to find some essential core of the charcter and bring it into the new surroundings, get the most latitude.  A lot of character differences can be imagined for a Jack and Ennis that grew up differently, in different circumstances.

I'm saying that what might fly in an AU!AU might not fly in a post-canon fic.

Thanks for that interesting commentary. Yes - I notice, for example, in Shades of Grey, Ennis seems rather less conflicted initially while Jack seems to have lost that hopeful spirit.Those character differences emerge from the different life experiences of the two men. It seems that character variations are more acceptable where a whole different life scenario is presented as opposed to variations based on a scenario extending beyond AP's story.

Nevertheless it seems that if Ennis goes in a direction people are not comfortable with, then fair, objective commentary is hard to come by. As one poster put it elsewhere: It isn't that Ennis would not enter a new relationship, rather that some fans would not like it if he did. People have a lot of emotional investment in what these characters do. Being able to step back from one's own prejudices and preferences to be critically objective is extremely difficult, particularly in such an emotion-laden fandom as this one.  And that goes for people who like the storyline as well as those who don't!

[Kazza]

SPOILER


You know, Ennis and Ellery have been together long enough and are secure enough in each other's affection that I'm sure they'll cope with a week of abstinence. They can still share some physical affection.

Anyway isn't it true that absence (abstinence) makes the heart (and other parts) grow fonder!  Imagine what the 'reunion' will be like 

It's a bit ironic that they are all other each other most of the time, but now, when they are getting married, they'll have to exercise restraint.

Louise, I'm relieved that we don't have to panic about the Saga ending just yet 

Karen

[louisev]

Just a general reminder:  for the sake of encouraging comfort for all readers and all authors on the Fan Fiction board, please try to remember that there are fans of many stories here as well as the authors who wrote the stories, and we try to discourage making comparisons between stories for the purposes of lauding one in favor of another.

That having been said, the apparent "liberties" I have taken with Ennis in the Laramie Saga have met with very contradictory reactions:  fierce condemnation on the one hand, and equally fierce praise on the other.  Very few people who have read the story have said "Eh ... I can take it or leave it."  In fact, I wish some of the first group would leave it - but I don't seem to have the power of discouragement.

[richardg49]

Ok..so ..So far we have: 

to Leslie: the reader in question brings all of his/her begging and pleading and sometimes even bribery, to  bear, to increase the local "schmoop" factor in a given chapter or plot element to the desired level.

to Souxi:  the reader in question takes leslie-ing to a whole other level with a fair amount of weeping, wailing, howling, .. practically anything to get what he/she wants.  Souxi-ers have been known to be downright relentless and they usually get what they want.

to June:  to squee.

to fistulate:  To undergo a period of enforced sexual abstinence, of at least one week's duration, while at the same time getting married.


LOL..

So, here's another for what could become The Laramie Lexicon:

To Dupreeciate:  The phenomenon of a minor character in a work of fiction increasingly absorbing readers' attention until the character threatens to overtake or equal their interest in the nominal main character(s).

[louisev]

That is an excellent one, let me use it in a sentence:

Louise, realizing to her dismay that her plot had fallen victim to rampant Dupreeciation of Ennis and Ellery, hurried to conclude the Saga and give Dupree his own short story before the damage became permanent!


I think there is a historical precedent for Dupreeciation, it might be called "Fraserisation" - the gradual overtaking of "Cheers" by the character of Fraser - to the point where Fraser got his own equally successful sitcom!

[Kazza]

That is an excellent one, let me use it in a sentence:

Louise, realizing to her dismay that her plot had fallen victim to rampant Dupreeciation of Ennis and Ellery, hurried to conclude the Saga and give Dupree his own short story before the damage became permanent!

Louise, what ever you do, please do not hurry to complete the Saga. 

I do love Dupree, but, Ennis and Ellery are still the characters I like to read about the most. Oh yes!

Karen

[RonitR]

What the hell is schmoop?

There was this  "Seinfeld" episode, where  Jerry and a girlfriend kept kissing, cuddling, and making baby noises in front of a really grossed- out  George.  They keep  telling each-other "your schmoopy", "no, you're schmoopy", in a cutesy voice, until George had enough and barked, "ok, you're BOTH schmoopy.

Ah, the good old days.

Also, to  "Dupreeciate". Its just too  #$%^ funny   

[louisev]

I was just about to comment on your previous post, Karen,

As you can all see, the finale of the Saga is in sight, but it isn't quite over yet.  I will be writing "Dupree's Choice" after I finish "The Red Stallion", so that you will all know what to expect.  "Dupree's Choice" will probably be available about 5 to 7 days after the Saga proper is concluded, as per my previous rather vague plan.