The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments

[wolf]

So, onto another bit of whispered or impreceptible dialogue... Actually, I'm just curious, before I bring it up for real... who here knows about the first tent scene controversy regarding something Jack may or may not have said?  This is essentially a bit of dialogue that may (or may not) be lost amidst his moans...

I know the piece of dialogue you're referring to  .  I've heard it just once, and it had me doing this  .  Not heard it since because I forget to look for it - too busy trying to get my heartrate at a sensible level what with Jake's pounding etc.  Incidentally, on the single occassion I did hear it, it 'seemed' really obvious (but then, Ennis's "I'm sorry" seems really obvious to me, so ...).  It also seemed very ....... ah ......... fitting, given the circumstances.  A steamy touch, if it's actually there!

w

[Brown Eyes]

Yup, I think wolf knows what I'm talking about...    (by the way, we need a "blushing" emoticon for this one...)

I'll leave y'all in suspense until a few more people chime in.
 

[RouxB]

You can't leave us hangin' like that!
I was also in the "heard it" category-not that anyone believed me for a second 

It being there in no way changes, for me, my feeling for Ennis as I KNOW for a certainty ( ) that he loved Jack, he knew he loved Jack and Jack knew it too. Nor does it change the import of "Jack, I swear". I think it adds a dimension to it and gives it more emphasis. I never interpreted "I swear" to mean just "I love you". For me it means that and a million other things including "if only..."

 

[nakymaton]

I get too carried away by things like the score or the sound of the wind to hear anything.

And it wouldn't change how I feel about Ennis. It would, however, change my opinion of Ang Lee. (He wouldn't be quite the fetishizer of repression that I consider him now. Not that it's a bad thing, given that I have a repression fetish myself.)

[serious crayons]

Well, I'm confused. We've all said we swear it wouldn't change our feelings for Ennis. But to be honest, I don't quite get the question in the first place. If it did change our feelings, what would it change about them?

As for the "I swear," I'm OK with that either way. I think that line means much more than "I love you." Even if it meant just exactly that, it wouldn't wreck it for me to know that Ennis had also almost imperceptibly muttered it into the shirts.

Ang Lee may not be a Fetishizer of Repression (good phrase, Mel -- it sounds like the title of a song, or a rock band!) but he certainly is a fetishizer of near-imperceptibility. How many mutterings, smiles, "hey c'meres," "sorry/s'alrights," held hands, etc. are there in this movie that you just barely make out -- or not -- because they're 1) too quiet 2) drowned out by music 3) at the very edge of the screen 4) in the dark 5) said under someone's breath 6) cut off after a 16th of a second when the scene changes?

Now Amanda and Wolf, spill.  You can PM it if you feel too shy to post it. Or will I have to spend another afternoon with my volume cranked up to 60 and my face pressed against the TV screen?

[Brown Eyes]

OK....  here goes. 

So, there are people in the world who believe that you can hear Jack say "f*** me" twice in the midst of the action in tent scene #1.  I think I know what they're talking about (there seems to be at least one moment where this could be a possibility)... but I truly believe that it's just Jack moaning and people projecting their own ideas onto the situation.    Actually, this is a case where I think it's very important for the encounter to happen in intense silence (other than breathing, etc.).  So, I don't want to believe that he actually says this. 

But, there it is... the first tent scene controversy... do with it what you will.

 

[wolf]

latjoreme,

I love the phrase 'fetishizer of repression' too  .  Though I think our cultural aversion to repression and imperceptibility is what prompts our qualification of his Very Chinese approach to storytelling.  Off topic I know, but one of the things that tickles me about my husband's professed disapproval of the film is the fact it's in conflict with his own Very Chinese appreciation of a Very Chinese film   .  

As for the tantalizingly inaccessible piece of dialogue, I'm working on a tame version for your extrapolation  .  Gimme a minute.

Ok, how about this.  Jack, at the height of ... proceedings ... gasps two words.  They're a request, you might say.  Possibly the most commonly gasped or grunted or moaned two words in the history dirty talk.   There ya go, that aught do it  .

w

[JennyC]

Jack, at the height of ... proceedings ... gasps two words.  They're a request, you might say.  Possibly the most commonly gasped or grunted or moaned two words in the history dirty talk.   There ya go, that aught do it  .

I quote wolf’s post only because the words did not appear there  .

I swear people hear all different kind of things in that scene.  Someone also said Jack said “Ennis” in the mist of his moans.

[wolf]

OK....  here goes. 

So, there are people in the world who believe that you can hear Jack say "f*** me" twice in the midst of the action in tent scene #1.  I think I know what they're talking about (there seems to be at least one moment where this could be a possibility)... but I truly believe that it's just Jack moaning and people projecting their own ideas onto the situation.    Actually, this is a case where I think it's very important for the encounter to happen in intense silence (other than breathing, etc.).  So, I don't want to believe that he actually says this.  
But, there it is... the first tent scene controversy... do with it what you will.

 

couldn't agree more!  as stated, I've heard it just once, and while it was a bit confronting, a bit steamy, and a bit kinda freaky-cool, I'm glad I haven't heard it at any other time.  as you say, it's one scene that needs to be played out silently.  a complete absence of verbal communication.  the intensity and urgency would be lost if either demonstrated the presence of mind to formulate a sentence, even a two word one!  lordy me, now I have to go and watch that scene again just to erase the naughty words   .

w

[Brown Eyes]

Heya wolf,

Nice post.  Welcome to BetterMost by the way.  Pour yourself some coffee and help yourself to some cherry cake.