Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[louisev]

MagicMountain:  "But was it in Jack to do either of those things?"

That is the question.  We have seen the fantastic development of Ennis in the LS.  I don't recall seeing a similar investigation of Jack's development in any stories leading up to the meeting after the divorce or after the last confrontation by the lake.  Most of the stories concentrate on Ennis.  How about a story of Jack's growth while working in Childress and coming to grips with Ennis' "If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it."?

I am not quite sure what you mean with your question, scudder.

[souxi]

can you click directly to the links?  Some folks have had problems over the past couple of days in accessing LJ.

I couldnt at first Louise no. It seems to have righted itself now though, thank God. I,ve read 13 chapters all at once!!

[Bigheart]

Hi everyone I,m back from my hols, but I,m not very happy. Louise what is the matter wiht LJ? Every time I try and forward onto the next chapter it says either "no such entry" or "no parameters given". I,ve been looking forward to my updates and now I cant read em!!
Hi June btw.

Hi Souxi darlin 

SO good to see you back! I've missed you! I got your pm, gonna pm you back 

I'm about 2 or 3 chaps behind    RL and all......

[louisev]

I am glad it got cleared up, Souxi.

And I am typity typing and chatting with Natali and Leslie in the Chat room now!  Please come and join us if you would like!

[scudder]

I am not quite sure what you mean with your question, scudder.

Louise, I was wondering if Jack could have developed and grown along the way so that he could have finally gotten through to Ennis, by threathening suicide or not continuing or whatever, so that his death which did get through to Ennis, would not have been necessary.  In other words, though it did not happen n the short story, could he have developed, like you have shown Ennis' development, to such an extent that he would not have been so passive and accomodating to Ennis' wishes and could have convinced Ennis to change as you have so beutifully shown he could and did chage after Jack's death.  A totally another story.

[louisev]

I imagine he might have done ... if there were a sufficient trigger.  But the problem with approaching it this way is of course... it requires changing the canon story.  Annie Proulx did not give us a Jack who survived.

[louisev]

Update to "The Red Stallion"

http://louisev.livejournal.com/141127.html  "Chapter 61:  A Can of Paint"

[caramelle58]

Oh dear - now I'm having trouble connecting to the LJ. Is there an alternative to it or is it just us Laramie addicts trying in thousands to get into the LJ .... probably got stuck at the entrance 

Try again later

Caramelle

[Marge_Innavera]

I read couple of reviews from my country critics about BBM, and curiously, they all agreed in one fact – the movie should be ending  after J/E final meeting , because there already was dead, already was corpse- “corpse of their relationship” as Louise mentioned, so no need for further dramatic end  for effect.
I just wish it were enough for Ennis to realize own mistakes, and he would learn  to accept himself and move forward to genuine relationship even with another man. But this scenario would probably work for different character, not Ennis. Ennis really needed the hardest blow from life – lose Jack forever; otherwise he would be until the end of his life convinced – he only did right decision. ( as always)

I can't agree with the critics you referred to that the movie should have ended after their last meeting. It might have satisfied many critics' thirst for cynicism; but the following scenes are not just for dramatic effect.  

An ending after the trailhead meeting, or after Ennis' discovery of Jack's death, would have resulted only in the crashing down of Ennis' efforts to construct a life where his sexuality could be denied and have an outlet at the same time. Yes, Ennis would need a very hard blow but to learn  to accept himself and move forward to genuine relationship even with another man would not have been possible only with that.  Ennis would have only the loss and would have had no inner resources.  To put it another way, without the last few scenes there would have been a push only, and no pull.

With all push and no pull, we have the future for Ennis that many viewers and fanfiction readers seem to crave - a life of depression, alcoholism and a bleak inner and outer landscape in general.  Consistent as this may be with the culturaly approved view of life as a nasty joke and all problems being insoluble, it would have been the difference between a tragedy and a standard-issue ain't-life-awful story.  

Or put it another way, many people have said that this story, and the film in particular, changed their lives. That would not have happened with the ending the critics you refer to would have wanted.

If RL is any indication, there's always the possibility that the very tentative steps toward self-realization could have born some good fruit in November. But you're probably right; without this life-shattering jolt he most likely would have gone on believing that he was dealing with his life and circumstances in the best way possible.

[Marge_Innavera]

    I understand that there are detractors who want to remain locked in the bittersweet and not see Ennis 'move on' - as is said...  Grow is a better term because many of us move on... but continue in the wasteland of our own inner bankruptcy (thinking of T.S. Elliot and Wasteland with it's "hollow men").  I wonder about those people... if they are in that same type of wasteland and either can't see or don't want to acknowledge, that there might be more than "measuring your life out in coffee spoons" (The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock - T. S. Elliot).

   My point in this is that, consistent with canon here... in LS we see Ennis, because of Jack's death - a backhanded gift indeed, begin or restart the journey of finding his own soul... and in the process, along the way... finding the love and resources necessary for himself... ~and~ a channel for the considerable resources that he has as an individual - commitment, loyalty, strength and power - to pour forth.

   If people want to remain in the bittersweet... then well and fine... but experience seems to teach... that bitter always overwhelms the sweet... and that an unwholesome attachment to bittersweet always leads to galling disappointment, disillusionment and despair... 

Your whole post would take several response posts to address, and I'm just replying to this part of it at present --

You're correct that Ennis' experience with Jack is not enough to overcome the psychic abuse inflicted by him on his father, and reinforced by society's tacit approval.  And after the loss, Ennis spending a certain length of time in the wilderness coming to terms with that is necessary which is why, IMO, his living alone in a spasely-furnished trailer is not necessarily a negative thing unless he never gets any further than that.  Many people in RL do not, and the result is certainly, as you say, the bitter overwhelming the sweet.

If that's the result in RL, staying in the wilderness and in grief only, it might at least partially explain some of the hostility to stories like LS.  In other words, Ennis spending the next decade, or two, three, four decades, in a blighted life might be seen as a validation: "see, this iconic character can't move beyond loss, despair and psychic imprisonment; I can't either."  And this is very understandable, but something being understandable doesn't automatically give it any positive power.  And in the case of Ennis as a character, his father triumphing over Jack certainly does not honor the relationship.  "Ennis and Jack forever" is certainly valid as far as the love enduring is concerned; "Ennis and Jack forever with Ennis remaining alone and in despair" does not.

One of the most essential ingredients for Ennis to overcome the father's evil legacy is to have not only a new love but to be in a supportive environment, something to counteract both the homophobia of the outer world and his inner fears.  In LS, that translates to not only Ellery but to Wes, Edna, etc. and even to the two daughters, as exasperating as they can be in some chapters.