Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[louisev]

...and we're back up!  whoo hee!

[RonitR]

Haven't commented in a while, but wanted to say, I was really dreading Ennis and Ellery's conversation about Jack, and was so relieved to see how delicately and respectfully Louise handled it.

I think Ennis IS starting to come to terms with who he is, and what Jack had meant to him, and IMHO it's good for him to be able to talk about it.

But, I think Ellery underestimates the impact these talks are going to have on himself. Ellery is a caretaker, and he habitually puts Ennis's needs before his own. I think he is doing this now, by serving as Ennis's confessor / therapist in this.

I can't believe that Ellery can hear about the depth of Ennis's love and devotion for Jack, and not be hurt – especially when comparing E & E relatively short relationship to J & E 20 years worth of  love .
Interesting to see what's going to happens next…

[louisev]

welcome back RonitR!

I guess we're going to find out what Ellery is made of aren't we?

[opinionista]

Haven't commented in a while, but wanted to say, I was really dreading Ennis and Ellery's conversation about Jack, and was so relieved to see how delicately and respectfully Louise handled it.

I think Ennis IS starting to come to terms with who he is, and what Jack had meant to him, and IMHO it's good for him to be able to talk about it.

But, I think Ellery underestimates the impact these talks are going to have on himself. Ellery is a caretaker, and he habitually puts Ennis's needs before his own. I think he is doing this now, by serving as Ennis's confessor / therapist in this.

I can't believe that Ellery can hear about the depth of Ennis's love and devotion for Jack, and not be hurt – especially when comparing E & E relatively short relationship to J & E 20 years worth of  love .
Interesting to see what's going to happens next…

IMO, Ellery is not putting Ennis's needs before his own. I think he is just lending a helping hand. He's  being a friend and a true partner because he truly loves Ennis. I think love is much more than having your partner showing you how much he/she loves you. Love is also about being there when your partner is hurting and in need. When Ellery was pissed and hurt over Beagle, Ennis took that role. He put his own pain and suffering aside, to help Ellery out. I don't know what emotional impact it'll have on Ellery, but sometimes, when you help someone else, you end up helping yourself too. And the fact that Ennis is being open about his pain, about his love for Jack, it could encourage Ellery to be open too about whatever he feels about Ennis pain or his relationship with Jack.

[RonitR]

I totally agree, Opinionista.

Hope they can (eventually) discuss Ellery's feelings and pain, too

Personally  -  I can (and do) talk with my friends about their past relationships, and am totally with them, and on their side. No problem.

But -  if my husband wanted to discuss his past relationship (of 20 years!) with a woman he loved deeply,  lost, and misses to this day, it would be extremely painful for me (of course, it would perhaps be the right thing to do, to let him talk about it, on many levels, but still – OUCH !! ).

Ellery would have to be made of stone not to feel pain, and not to be even a little insecure. That's just my view, of course.

And Louise – Good to be back !! 

[louisev]

and here is your update, boys and girls:

http://louisev.livejournal.com/106660.html  "Chapter 16:  Ranchin Up"

[Bigheart]

IMO, Ellery is not putting Ennis's needs before his own. I think he is just lending a helping hand. He's  being a friend and a true partner because he truly loves Ennis. I think love is much more than having your partner showing you how much he/she loves you. Love is also about being there when your partner is hurting and in need. When Ellery was pissed and hurt over Beagle, Ennis took that role. He put his own pain and suffering aside, to help Ellery out. I don't know what emotional impact it'll have on Ellery, but sometimes, when you help someone else, you end up helping yourself too. And the fact that Ennis is being open about his pain, about his love for Jack, it could encourage Ellery to be open too about whatever he feels about Ennis pain or his relationship with Jack.

I totally agree too Opinionista.

This is also what true love is all about. Putting your own pain and suffering aside to help your partner get through whatever hardship he or she is going through no matter how hard or hurtful it may be to you.
I think it would have been harder and harder for Ellery if Ennis had continued to keep it all bottled up inside. It's got to be really hard for him to hear and to see Ennis's obvious pain but he knows this is something Ennis really needs to do now and because he loves Ennis so damn much he's there for him 100% of the way.

[Bigheart]

and here is your update, boys and girls:

http://louisev.livejournal.com/106660.html  "Chapter 16:  Ranchin Up"

I don't really know what to think about all that Ellery's said to Ennis.
I'm all torn up inside and confused...
Gotta let of all this sink in properly...

[pastorfred]

and here is your update, boys and girls:

http://louisev.livejournal.com/106660.html  "Chapter 16:  Ranchin Up"

I try not to post anywhere while I'm angry, but I don't have a lot of choice this morning; I'm leaving for brunch in a little while. Alright, alright, I could wait until I get back, but if I do, I might not say something that I think needs to be said right now.

Chapter 16 of the Laramie Saga offers us a new approach to the question of Ennis and Jack ranching up together. Some fanfics offer the possibility of Ennis and Jack becoming quite wealthy very fast as a result of their choosing to get together. Some offer a more realistic depiction of struggles that would have ensued. On the lips of Ellery we hear the salutary recognition that any success in ranching together would likely have been impossible in their time and place.

The separation of Ennis and Jack after their summer on Brokeback Mountain was the result of choices made by both of them. In the story, they drove away from each other. In the movie, Jack drove away and Ennis walked away. When Ennis began to feel physically ill, he did not know what was wrong. It took a year before he recognized that letting Jack Twist out of his sights was the biggest mistake of his life.

In many circles within bbmworld there is a tendency to see Jack Twist as the emblem of all goodness and righteousness. I've written on Jack as a Christ figure in the story and movie. (If you haven't seen what I wrote, it's on my lj - http://pastorfred.livejournal.com) In real life, where most of us have to live most of the time, Jack is just as human as the rest of us. The way the great love of Ennis and Jack unfolded in their lives was equally the responsibility of both men. Ellery's words to Ennis remind us all of this truth. What makes me see red this morning is the words of some of the commenters on Louise's lj. No honest portrayal of Jack as a flawed human being is to be allowed. No one is allowed to consider Jack as responsible alongside Ennis for the way their lives went. Any hint that Jack made mistakes too is treated as though it were saying that all blame is on Jack.

Any fanfic that allows Ennis any happiness in life after Jack's death is vilified. Ennis can be tortured in any number of ways, but Jack must always and only be revered. I for one am sick and tired of the required dichotomy of bad!Ennis and good!Jack.

[yb]

This is such a great post, pasterfred, I totally agree with everything you said; it's always been a mystery to me that some people thought Jack could do no wrong while Ennis was to blame for everything that went wrong between them.  May I request that you post this on the LJ as well?