Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[notBastet]

Your plans sound excellent Louise.

Nice title, I think.
 

[Lumière]

Okay folks, after short deliberation... a little look ahead.

I will be wrapping up "Shelter From the Storm" (much as I lurv that title) as soon as the boys can buy tuxes, get the Red Stallion back in operation, hire a new bouncer (yes!  perhaps we have casting for Mr. Hot Extra, Lucise!) Mr. Lance England, and get to Ben Tooey's wedding.

  Yay!

And all's well that ends well except of course for Amos Marigold, Brad Sevigny, and a host of bad Brotherhood guys.

I have finally settled on a title for the next book which will cover things settling down in the Sheriff's department, Ennis gathering up a new crop of fillies for the Brown Horse Ranch, reconciling with his daughter Francine, he and Ellery buying a new horse and taking that long anticipated ride up to Brokeback together.  The working title of the next book is  "The Long Way Home".  I think.

Sounds great Louise.  Lucky, lucky us! 

[ranchgal]

I'd say Dupree is 1, Ennis and Ellery are 6. Ennis had no real interest in women except to hide his true self.

I don't believe that.   While it is true and obvious that Ennis loved Jack more than he loved Alma, I don't believe that he was without love  for her.  IT just wasn't the same.    He loved her as much as he knew how to at the time.  He just stated that he was concerned about her being satisfied enough when they were together, to learn and DO what would make her happy.
I do believe that he has been occasionally interested in women, and has already stated that some catch his eye occasionally.   Throughout the whole getting to know Ennis, through BBM, book, movie, and this Laramie Saga---he has never said he didn't love Alma, just that he never loved her like he did Jack, and now like he does Ellery.   But I do not believe that the only reason he was ever with Alma was to hide who he was.  HE may have not quite even understood who he was, but he wasn't hiding.

[laurel]

I want to consider a little of Alfred Kinsey's theory of sexuality. He developed a scale of 0 to 6, where 0 was 100 percent heterosexual and 6 was 100 percent homosexual. Zeros and sixes are relatively rare. Most of us fall somewhere between one and five.

Even though 6's are rare, I would say that Ellery fits the bill.  Not only has he never been with a woman, and has no interest in it, he also seems to be quite grossed out by the whole idea!

I agree with ranchgal about Ennis.  I think he loved Alma, a little bit anyway, just not nearly as much as he loves Jack and Ellery.  In view of his revelations about Charlie's Angels in tight leather, and Emma Peel  , I would put him at a 4 or 5!

I suspect (hope?) we will learn more about Dupree soon, but for now I would say 1 or 2.

[laurel]

I have finally settled on a title for the next book which will cover things settling down in the Sheriff's department, Ennis gathering up a new crop of fillies for the Brown Horse Ranch, reconciling with his daughter Francine, he and Ellery buying a new horse and taking that long anticipated ride up to Brokeback together.  The working title of the next book is  "The Long Way Home".  I think.

Yee Haw!! Book Five!!  Fast or, well, fast, I like the direction you're going!

The focus of the new book sounds great.  As much as I am enjoying "CSI: Laramie", crime stories and mysteries are not my usual thing.  That's just my own personal preference.  Mystery is not my favorite genre, but yours was obviously well written, hot, funny, and, oh yeah, did I mention hot?!!  It's been a lot of fun to read, and it's probably good for me to branch out a little.  Still, it will be nice to read about Ennis and Ellery getting away for a while, and I am looking forward to hearing more about Francine.  I also will be happy to see more of Ennis at work.  He seems to have had minimal self-confidence for so long (most of his life, really), and now he has something at which he is really, really good.  And other people recognize just how good he is.  This can only be a positive thing for his personal growth.  Can't wait to see how this all develops!

Laurel

[opinionista]

I don't believe that.   While it is true and obvious that Ennis loved Jack more than he loved Alma, I don't believe that he was without love  for her.  IT just wasn't the same.    He loved her as much as he knew how to at the time.  He just stated that he was concerned about her being satisfied enough when they were together, to learn and DO what would make her happy.
I do believe that he has been occasionally interested in women, and has already stated that some catch his eye occasionally.   Throughout the whole getting to know Ennis, through BBM, book, movie, and this Laramie Saga---he has never said he didn't love Alma, just that he never loved her like he did Jack, and now like he does Ellery.   But I do not believe that the only reason he was ever with Alma was to hide who he was.  HE may have not quite even understood who he was, but he wasn't hiding.

I think there's a difference between loving somebody and being in love with somebody. At least in spanish we make that difference: querer a alguien vs. estar enamorado. It's not the same thing.

IMO, Ennis loved Alma, but he wasn't in love with her, not even in lust. He married her because he thought it was the right thing to do, and also to conceal his homosexuality from society and his family, I might add. While I agree that maybe Ennis to some extent didn't know who he was, he knew very well what turned him on, especially after being with Jack. How could he not? Ennis was in denial out of fear but as soon as he saw Jack, he knew what he wanted. As we all know he was afraid of being killed for being queer. And part of his behavior has to do with his childhood, with his father taking him to see the corpse of Earl.  IMO, if Ennis had grown up in a city and had more education, he'll be 100% gay, just like Ellery (Or at least 99.9%, since it's a fact that there are gay men who think some women are attractive but wouldn't have sex with them).

I've gotten to this conclusion because of his passion towards his male lovers. Ennis is extremelly passionate when making love to a man. There's a scene in the movie that speaks clearly about this. When Ennis is packing to leave to the mountain to "go fishing" and Alma makes the comment about the job opening in the power company, Ennis looks like a caged animal desperate to be set free into his natural habitat. He was also shown truly happy with Jack, just as he is truly happy with Ellery, and pretty miserable with Alma. And he used to penetrate Alma by the ass. That's in the short story and the movie. 

But Ennis out of habit and of need learned to like women to some extent. But it is not his nature. It's the same thing as with Dupree, but the other way around. He spent a great deal of time with women. First Alma, then Cassie, and had learn to like them, and to find beauty in them, and in being with them. But that's doesn't make him 80% gay, IMO. I think Ennis is 100%, maybe 99.99% but  I'd give him a 6 on Kinsey scale.

[David]

I don't believe that.   While it is true and obvious that Ennis loved Jack more than he loved Alma, I don't believe that he was without love  for her.  IT just wasn't the same.    He loved her as much as he knew how to at the time. 

Ennis did certainly go thru the motions with her.  But when he and Jack were in the Motel, Ennis says that he "likes girls ok, but Geez it is nothing like how it is with you" (Jack) or something to that effect.

 

He just stated that he was concerned about her being satisfied enough when they were together, to learn and DO what would make her happy.

Well, actually he said that he'd do those things if she made enough of a fuss asking.   Big difference than him doing it on his own.  And as mentioned, even when he was having sex with Alma, he preferred to have anal sex with her.  Again, thinking of HIS pleasure, not hers.

I do believe that he has been occasionally interested in women, and has already stated that some catch his eye occasionally.   Throughout the whole getting to know Ennis, through BBM, book, movie, and this Laramie Saga---he has never said he didn't love Alma, just that he never loved her like he did Jack, and now like he does Ellery.   But I do not believe that the only reason he was ever with Alma was to hide who he was.  HE may have not quite even understood who he was, but he wasn't hiding.

Ennis knew a year after Brokeback that he "never should have let you out of my sights" meaning Jack.   So he knew by then he was in trouble.   And we saw how he treated Alma after the reunion scene.  Very distant.    Recall the scene where he almost forgets his fishing tackle box.  He doesn't even kiss her goodbye.  OUCH.    And at this point having sex with her is just a mechanical means of getting himself off.  And I'd guess it was far and few apart, as we know he prefers to masterbate while thinking of Jack.

As for Girls catching Ennis's eye?    I beg to differ there too.   Watch that scene with Cassie.  She looks pretty hot there at the jukebox.   But Ennis tries to walk right by her without looking once, let alone twice.   

After I came out to my parents, my mom told me she suspected years earlier because she's see female store clerks flirt with me and I never noticed!  Ha ha!

[louisev]

I can see it both ways here, folkses... I'm not sure how critical it is to determine the extent of Ennis's gayness... but certainly there is a difference in how Ennis and Ellery view women and respond to them sexually, and I think that has at least as much to do with his experience as a homosexual in denial as it does with his "true nature" (whatever that really means...)  The nature of the conflict - or perhaps disagreement - he has with Ellery is enough to plant a seed of doubt in Ellery's mind as to whether Ennis has the same passion for Ellery as Ellery does for Ennis.  Which is what in our present chapter (the one I havent written yet) Ennis feels provoked into proving. There is certainly no doubt that Ennis has never felt the passion for a woman - any woman - that he has felt for Jack, and he has discovered that he feels an equally powerful passion for Ellery.

One thing I do wish to make clear:  one of my super-pet-peeves in fan fiction is "evil ugly Alma" and "evil ugly Lureen."  While Ennis certainly never had the same feelings of deep passion toward Alma as he did toward Jack (he had sex with Jack before he did with Alma, LOTS OF IT,) he did feel a great affection for her, enough for him to stay married to her despite the fact that he knew he wanted Jack in a completely different and much more powerful way.

One of my goals in my story is to illustrate what I thought was the original intent of Annie Proulx in portraying Alma AND Lureen as wives who were loved, as people, but not truly desired, because their husbands were already passionately in love with one another.

None of this applies to Ellery, of course, whose own temperament and psychology makes it completely impossible for him to imagine even kissing a woman, and in fact pull the potentially dangerous stunt of stealing Lance Wayland's drawers from gym class in high school.  If that means he gets a different number in the Kinsey scale then so be it... but it could also be chalked up to temperament and the early recognition of his homosexuality, which from all accounts, does vary between individuals.

[opinionista]

Yeah well, but Dupree is right. Ellery shouldn't care who or what Ennis jerk off about. It's really none of his business.

[louisev]

Update to "Shelter From the Storm"

http://louisev.livejournal.com/91763.html  "Chapter 63:  100%"


Warning:  Queer Sex